- The scary part is not the GPS installed by the fleet company that previously owned the car, which in all likelihood was just forgotten there, but the GPS and eSIM that comes with most (all?) new cars and that in most (all?) new cars cannot be disabled.
Apart from privacy concerns of your data being used or sold by the car vendor, government outreach is also a concern. There was a bill announced in the US for all new cars to be equipped with "driver impairment" tech which was called a "kill switch". Media rushed to say it's not really a kill switch, just "sensors or cameras to monitor the driver’s behaviors, head or eye movements" and "block the driver from operating the vehicle". So... a kill switch. https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-402773429497
Anyway, I'm staying with my old gas Honda until it dies which is probably never with proper maintenance and eventually restoration. I'll never go electric. Modern cars are just smartphones on wheels at this point, and smartphones are just spying devices at this point.
by hoistbypetard
7 subcomments
- > “can I get free data from the SIM card embedded in the device that I now technically own?”
That seems like the next-most-interesting question now that you've determined what the device is. Possibly followed closely by "can I use that free-to-me data in a fun way that might teach the people who installed the SIM to deactivate their devices when they sell them?"
i.e. Could you send and receive enough on the connection using that SIM to cost them enough money that they'd notice it?
- Steven Wright: "I have this switch in my house that doesn't seem to do anything. It's in a hallway, so every time I pass it, I flip it: up, down, up, down...up...down. A few months after I got the house, a guy from Indonesia called me on the phone and said...'stop it'"
- I love hardware mysteries.
I mostly drive old 90s enthusiast cars, and I have had my fair share of undocumented switches.
The most surprising to date was in a Nissan Silvia, from 1989. Sometimes it wouldn't crank off the key, given the solution chosen it must have been a wiring issue. Instead of fixing that wiring, the previous owner had directly wired power to the starter via a "missle switch" style switch, and instead of mounting it anywhere remotely useful, it was just spliced into the loom and sat on top of the rocker cover in the engine bay.
So if it wouldn't start, I had to leave the key at "on", hop out of the car, bump that switch and then it would start. Obviously standing in front of a manual car while starting it is the dumbest thing next to wiring your starter to a switch in the engine bay. Fortunately I never ran myself over.
Another one, I will keep short, a 97 Skyline would only light up ready to start 1/4 times. Seemingly randomly, on key bump. Turns out the flash memory for the fuel map had corrupted, and depending on the temperature and a bit of randomness from the sensors, it would only hit a corrupted cell occasionally. It got worse and worse as more of the table corrupted, until it would only start say 1/60 key bumps.
It was a dodgy power wire causing the corruption, and fixing that plus reflashing the tune fixed the issue.
- At first glance this reminded me of some Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor models which had similar unlabeled buttons. One would disable all exterior lights, including brake lights, for going into stealth/surveillance mode. An adjacent button was used to be able to remove the key and keep the engine running, while preventing the car from being shifted out of park until the key was inserted again. I haven't seen either feature re-introduced in the newer Explorers or Fusions though.
by ilikeatari
2 subcomments
- So this was a gps tracker that was installed by a fleet and never removed. The larger issue is that most car companies in the US are reselling your data on newish vehicles (2016+) anyway. I am still amazed that this is not a larger issue.
by justahuman74
0 subcomment
- Aftermarket GPS tracker, for those who just want the answer quickly
- Title should be "…My used car has a mysterious and undocumented switch…". It would be a lot more interesting if some model of new car had an undocumented switch.
by m3galinux
2 subcomments
- Whoever bought my old Honda Fit is asking the same question right now; I installed a button in about the same place. They'll have fun figuring that one out. Honda Fit's AC is designed a lot more for fuel efficiency than effectiveness. So I added a resistor parallel to AC temperature sensor (and the switch inline) which makes the system think it's warmer than it really is, so it cools more. But with the risk of allowing the coil to freeze up. I called it the "AC Boost Switch".
- The switch is probably for tax reasons, to record whether you’re making a business vs personal trip. Personal trips go towards the 500 km allowance before the car is seen as indirect salary and should be taxed as such. Setting it to personal might also disable the tracking for privacy reasons.
- Back around 2004 a friend of mine worked at a car dealership in the Bronx that sold high end used cars.
They were putting GPS trackers in all of the cars they financed so they could repossess them when the customer didn't make their payment.
This was/is (from my understanding, IANAL) very illegal. They never told the customers either.
The financing was ridiculous and they preyed on the people who had just enough down and didn't care what they were signing so they had a large percentage of repossessions.
Made me wonder how many other shops were doing the same thing...even 20 years ago.
- As long as privacy-related misconducts are considered petty offenses, these things will just continue. Governments fail to see the implications because the virtual world is too difficult for them to understand. As long as there are no laws that actually get enforced, your privacy isn't worth anything.
by londons_explore
2 subcomments
- Most of those GPS trackers for corporate use require a data connection, which is probably costing someone $€£ 10/month for the line at least.
Usually when you stop paying for that subscription, the line gets deactivated.
So probably nobody is getting that GPS trace.
by prmoustache
2 subcomments
- > Unlike the Peugeot, the Opel has gadgets - quite a few of them.
It is funny because that Opel IS a Peugeot.
Same group (Stellantis), and same mechanicals as the contemporary Peugeot 208 with only minor aesthetics and branding modifications.
by herczegzsolt
1 subcomments
- More than likely an iButton reader to identify the user and a business/personal use switch.
The switch basically does nothing, but tha state of it is logged in the tracking system along with the routes the car takes. In many EU countries you tax differently for personal use, so the switch is sort of important for tax reasons.
by LimeLimestone
0 subcomment
- After looking at the photo, and before actually reading the post, I was sure it was a switch for retrofitted fog lights - they are not required in the US and you must to have them in Europe in order to pass MOT.
I have an almost identical looking switch in my Mustang (which I imported from America) and it does exactly that - turns the fog lights on and off :)
- Shout out to the old Peugeot 107. You’d struggle to fit your shopping in the boot/trunk, 0-60 takes several business days, the brakes are more of a suggestion to slow down, even moderate hills require dropping to second and ragging the engine (no idea what the redline is cause ours doesn’t even have a tach), and opening the passenger window requires reaching across from the driver’s side.
But it was mine and my wife’s first car and we have a lot of happy memories of places that car has taken us to. Aside from the odd flat tyre and a new clutch and timing belt over the last 8 years, it’s never let us down (it was largely engineered by Toyota which certainly helps there). We got a new car at the start of this year so it doesn’t see much use now, but we’ve kept it as a second car because it’s so damn cheap to run and maintain.
- Realistically I can’t imagine the old owner would keep paying for the data connection on cars they’ve decommissioned and sold off. The device probably is just searching for a network all the time.
Probably. Obviously this assumes competence, attention to detail, and responsibility with corporate funds.
- I wonder if it’s a tracking off switch or a panic button? I used to work for a fleet tracking SaaS, and some customers with unionised workforces needed a way to disable tracking, and panic buttons were common too (although less so in Europe).
- I bought a new Ford F250 a few years ago and it came with a built-in fleet management service/subscription with GPS tracking. I flipped it a few months later to a dealer and I had to proactively bug them to take over the access to the service. Would have been very easy to spy on the future owner.
by orliesaurus
1 subcomments
- Anyone that has a Tesla knows what data they track? Or is it dependant on the features you have active ...
- I hope some day there will be a car brand that is privacy-friendly. As "dumb" as possible.
- Soon as I saw the round thing I knew it was an iButton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1-Wire
I have seen them on Home Depot forklifts. Lift operators have the iButton key fob to allow the machine to stay operating. Years ago I was with a guy who though the could load our truck himself, started the lift, alarm goes off and it shuts down.
Used cars can have all sorts of crap in them from mods or whatever. And who knows what abuse a used car has seen but this car was fleet maintained and GPS monitored so likely a good used car.
by nubinetwork
0 subcomment
- I don't buy the GPS tracker explanation... they would have installed it without the switch, because why would they trust the driver to turn it on and off?
- New car sounds like brand new car, not used car. Which have history.
I found the title a bit misleading in that regard.
- My car came with a similar toggle switch under the dash. I figured out it was to fully disable the ABS system. (The previous owner was a fan of taking his car two track days.)
I kept accidentally toggling it off with my knee, so I replaced it with a nice flush push button. I haven't tracked the car yet though.
by ImPostingOnHN
0 subcomment
- The metal thing looks like an ibutton / 1-wire reader, which matches the functional description given:
https://www.atrack.com.tw/en/product/1-wire-ibutton-tag-read...
If you have a flipper zero, maybe you could poke at it.
- How do these things send the position? Don't they need their own cellular connection for that?
- That was a fun read. It's interesting to think that they would leave it attached. Indeed, what could you do with that?
Did you find the unit that the wires go to? Then you could open that up and see what chips, sensors etc are in there.
- NMI switch, for debugging?
After reading post: Oh. That makes me wonder how many second hand cars are driving around with similar features?
- If you press it, "They will come!"
by assimpleaspossi
0 subcomment
- I'm pretty sure there is no little man in a back room somewhere tracking his every move.
- A lot of used cars have something like this. I'm honestly more surprised OP apparently bought the car either sight unseen or without questioning this before signing any paperwork.
- I wonder what should be the GDPR implications for the car dealership, selling cars that track their owner's location and not being able to confirm it, explain why it exists, or who receives the data.
Unless the whole thing is disabled in absence of a registered fleet tracker key on the magnet on the right.
- https://dogsonthe4th.com/mystery-solved/
by ChrisMarshallNY
0 subcomment
- I remember reading a similar article, here, in the last year or so.
It was about a mysterious box. Turned out to be some kind of remote disabler.
- Meanwhile this is coming as a standard feature on many new cars, and all your data goes straight to LexisNexis.
- The more such evidence about new cars means the more I'm glad I got a used car, a 2001 GMC in good condition!!!
Car makers: For some people your new cars can't compete with your 20+ year old used cars! Right, 20 years of changes resulted in big steps backwards.
In general avoid obscurity and complexity. And instead emphasize the KISS principle -- keep it simple silly!
Suggestion: For SUV models with a door in the back, some have just one door and a hinge at the top. Instead have the long common two doors, one with the hinge high and the other, low. That way, can actually have a "tailgate picnic party" and reduce the number of times a head hits the door.
And there is a problem: Please return to the old round headlights, two for low beam and two more for high beam. They gave better light, didn't have a plastic covering that got cloudy, didn't have the current obscure way to replace a light that failed, and were easy to understand and aim and cheap to replace.
I know, the old lights were cheap. But also remember, they were better!!!
- Fake/simulated security indicator.
- I love my bicycle
- It's the magic/more magic switch.
- That was an interesting read
- > I now know my car is being tracked still, and that they know I did try out what the car’s acceleration is like at full throttle.
At 101hp, I am sure noisy, but not thrilling.
- yes, agree to the last lines about requesting data under GDPR. I would go further and sue the company collecting data against my knowledge
by sandeepthroat
0 subcomment
- [flagged]
by doctorpangloss
0 subcomment
- > now I'm basically driving around with a foreign GPS tracker
You mean your phone?
- While you do own the hardware, you probably don’t own the data, licenses, and software in the SIM so you might not be entitled to the data it transmits once it hits the carriers network.
- I think I'll pwess... the wed one.
by sandeepthroat
0 subcomment
- 380 comments for "discussing" a simple fleet tracking addon. It's Saturday, get out and have fun instead, you nerds. Oh wait, that uppens your carbon etc. footprint.
by urbandw311er
0 subcomment
- > After a bit of perseverance
> I figured out what it is
I disagree: after failing to figure out what it was, you asked for help and somebody else figured out what it was.