by tgsovlerkhgsel
0 subcomment
- These kind of things will stop when they start getting treated as malicious attacks (similar to ransomware), i.e. the perpetrators become wanted people and if caught, see significant jail time.
This goes both for the malicious bricking of normal consumer devices, and attacks on critical infrastructure like this, except of course the punishment for the latter should be correspondingly more severe.
- I feel like stuff like this shouldn't be anywhere near the internet. Partly because of reasons like this where the manufacturer can just randomly decide to disable it, but also because its usually the software equivalent of Swiss cheese.
by crooked-v
3 subcomments
- Going by the article, it looks like the title is incorrect and it was Deye (the manufacturer) that did it and not Sol-Ark (the US distributor).
- I have a solar edge inverter. I never connected it to the Internet out of concern that this was possible. While it is a different company, this vindicates my concern.
- Not sure why sol-ark is getting blamed.
People were buying Chinese inverters meant for the Chinese market off aliexpress on the gray market and shipping them to other countries. Deye decided to crack down on the behavior.
There’s nothing indicating this has anything to do with sol-Ark at this point other than them being the approved distributor of rebranded deye inverters in the US.
- Can someone who has a solar inverter explain why these are connected to the internet?
- If you sold equipment which wasn't certified for connection to another economies electricity grid, and discovered resellers were selling it into that economy, what would you do?
Calling this trade war invokes issues which may exist, but ignores more present dangers. Selling unlicensed radio equipment (--for example) into different economies has massive financial risks.
- Any idea what the impact is for the state grids? I wonder if they got a sudden drop in feed-ins and whether it affects pricing.
Any idea how common this manufacturer is across the place?
I'm not from the states, but I do know that if my solar would be bricked, it would take me weeks to find out. I don't exactly check up on it and it's out of sight.
by Firerouge
2 subcomments
- Sol-Ark certainly seems to embody 'never let a crisis go to waste '.
Sol-Ark may not have pulled the trigger on bricking the inverters, but it certainly sounds like their legal actions pressed Deye's hand.
And then to shake down all the individuals who's inverters broke with a limited time opportunity to buy a brand new one from them....
by aldousd666
0 subcomment
- Trade wars have casualties. This is the first in a long line to come.
by boredatoms
4 subcomments
- We need laws to prevent this
- Here's what I want: by law, any device that is connected to the internet needs to have a warning on the box, similar to the one that's on cigarettes packaging, stating the risks of that device being online (bricking/loss of service, data might be compromised in a cyberattack, etc.)
- Can the firmware still be flashed? I found cloud-free custom firmware exists for these inverters with a quick search, so if the units can still be flashed many may be salvageable.
- Im sure there is some US law, that considers this an act of terror against the national power grid ;)
- I own a Guangzhou Sanjing R5-8K-S2 inverter that had issues shortly after installation where it was generating far less power than expected.
The web telemetry panel had multiple gaps throughout the day where energy generation dropped to 0, but having datapoints logged every 10 minutes didn't give out enough information to determine why that was happening.
It also had a current status endpoint which updated every 10 seconds. I wrote a python script to log those updates into a file, and eventually discovered the inverter was shutting down itself and waiting 5 minutes every time it found its grid voltage to be greater than 241V.
Installer wanted utility to lower the house's grid transformer tap, but needed authorization from Utility, who declined claiming it was already on the lowest tap possible. Cynically, i think they declined because lowering further would lower grid voltage at night below minimums they're contractually required to maintain.
Tried going into the manufacturer's website to see if a firmware update could solve this. Couldn't find firmware updates, but i did find a manual for their local monitoring app, including a password for installer-only settings, set to "123456".
The app doesn't include any functionality to change said password to something else, so i assume it's hardcoded. There was one change i could still legally do without violating anything - raising the grid shutdown threshold voltage from 241 to 242V. This change did get reflected in subsequent logs, so the settings panel is functional. I could technically increase that further (to a maximum of 275V), but that would expose me to liability.
Parents suggest contacting the inverter's distributor for support, and they asked for a password i was never given. Apparently the manufacturer is suppopsed to create accounts for installers/distributors buying directly from them, and i somehow bypassed that process when creating an account for myself, without even realizing it.
Some more clarification later, it turns out they can still remotely access the inverter with its serial number. After doing so, they "fixed" the issue without explaining how. Checking the installer settings interface, it turns out they just increased the grid overvoltage shutdown threshold to 275V right off the bat.
At least i got them on record saying they did that, so i'm technically in the clear. Still, having that kind of access was scary enough to want to make me disconnect the inverter from the internet.
Turns out its warranty (which only expires in 2036) has terms requiring it to stay connected to the internet. That's enough time to trigger WW3 and a resulting horus scenario (https://horusscenario.com/).
Until then, the best i can do is to throttle the inverter's internet connection to something like 10kbps, which isn't enough to prevent someone persistent enough from uploading new firmware.
Stories like this make me reconsider keeping it connected. I'm surprised we haven't seen inverter ransomware yet.
by MortyWaves
0 subcomment
- Actions like this should forever ban an organisation and its executives from operating in anyway in the countries affected.
- Regarding solark statement about using their own backend. I am pretty sure they transitioned to it around May 2024. Before that it was different site, which I am pretty sure was shared by all deye customers. I wonder if this event was planned well in advance...
- off grid here,off and on since the early 90's
current iteration uses US made charge controller and inverter, midn9ght and magnum
both capable of firmware updates, but continue to function after 10 years without coms.The midnight controller did
pop up a cheeky message of "got coms?" for
years, but for some reason , gave up.
The thing with both of these pieces of equpiment is that they are designed by bad ass electrical engineers to survive and continue to function under the worst conditions..... and then some, which I have personaly tested.
I believe that a firware update could be
done with any old laptop, and that while
as a new owner I did go all ocd watching all of the data(did learn a lot), now I
sometimes forget that the system exists,
......its that reliable
- It’s not clear how the device was bricked. Could it be reset to not be bricked by disconnecting it from the Internet and rebooting or reflashing?
by totallykvothe
0 subcomment
- People responsible for this kind of evil need to pay with personal property seizure.
by tibbydudeza
0 subcomment
- I presume they locked out the solar recharging of the battery and home supply but do not stop mains grid power to the home ???.
- If it depends on the cloud to operate it's not yours.
by greenthrow
0 subcomment
- Title is a bit misleading and makes it sound like Sol-Ark did this. They did not. Title should be "Deye manufacturer reportedly disables all Deye inverters in the US". They are the same entity but this wording avoids confusion about Sol-Ark being responsible.
by thot_experiment
0 subcomment
- To most of us HN denizens it's obvious that OTA updates and internet connectivity generally leads to the things we rely on being worse. It sucks to have something that works when you go bed and is broken the next morning because of some idiotic update.
What can we do to modify capitalism so that this externality is correctly captured? I think most people, especially those who rely on these systems to do their jobs would tell you "I would gladly pay a premium to prevent outside influences from being able to brick my tractor (or whatever), if it's broken I want to be the one who has broken it."
Is this something that could simply be solved by aggressive anti-trust? Surely this isn't the best future we can come up with.
- It is extremely frustrating to watch "connected" "smart" devices repeatedly do exactly what we knew they would do, and yet nobody ever learns a damn thing. People will keep on buying Internet-connected devices, manufacturers will keep making them, this sort of thing will keep happening, and the rest of us will struggle to even find mass-manufactured things that are not Internet-connected and "smart".
Even devices that are pretty much for "self-hosting" are increasingly trying to sneak in cloud-connected back doors, like Synology DSM trying to sneak in cloud authentication to your local NAS. Stop trying to make the devices I bought for the purposes of having locally-managed devices depend on cloud services! My local network is not just a fucking gateway to cloud services!
- As a consumer and homeowner I try my hardest to buy "smart" things that only have local control, especially for important systems like power and HVAC. Our standby generator has a manufacturer supplied wifi pod that I never set up. Instead I use an RS485-to-USB dongle and monitor it myself with open source software. Our HVAC is the same to the greatest extent possible. When shopping for a new robot vacuum Valetudo[1] compatibility is an overriding concern.
If/when we have solar installed it will not be connected to the manufacturer or distributor's cloud systems.
[1]: https://valetudo.cloud
- I'm almost grateful to the manufacturer for demonstrating the terrifying kind of cyberattack enabled by such remote update/lockout functionality.
Just imagine this kind of thing happening in a (probably not so distant) future in which a significant fraction of all electricity is being generated in a decentralized way, using devices such as this...
- This time, it's a malicious manufacturer, next time it's a malicious hacker. Doesn't seem like connecting these to the internet is worth it.
- I feel for customers impacted by this but hate that the only real choices customers have are local, but expensive, equipment or affordable, but outsourced equipment.
This is endemic in the home automation space. Nearly everything is made and operated on Chinese soil. Like security cameras, or, in my case, our LiDAR and camera augmented robot vacuums.
Some components, like lights and switches, have (very) expensive American alternatives. Some support ZigBee or Matter and can be controlled locally. Many many others require cloud infrastructure operated outside of the US and become bricks without it.
I would love to see the US mandate ITAR for all IoT devices sold in the US. If anything, that will help prop up local alternatives like Matter since that will be way cheaper than building compliant cloud-connexted devices.
by sandeepthroat
0 subcomment
- [flagged]
- Where is the government when you need it…
by SoftTalker
2 subcomments
- Reason #42 that I don't want to own my electric supply equipment. I'm happy to pay a utility to provide AC power to my service panel.
- Interesting to see China do the same thing as the US did to China so many times. Only now it's wrong