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Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

408 points by tosh

by neonate

0 subcomment

https://archive.ph/xQGXr

by Animats

7 subcomments

Since last night, anyway. The people who make shipping work are frantically trying to keep up. One of the biggest customs brokers posts updates twice a day on weekdays. Last update 4 PM Friday, so they haven't caught the biggest reversal. If tariff rates change while in transit, the bond paid before the item was shipped may now be insufficient. So the container goes into storage (where?) until Customs and Border Protection gets paid. Some recipients don't have the cash to pay. Low-end resellers who order on Alibaba and sell on Amazon, for example.
Port operators hate this. Unwanted containers clog up the portside sorting and storage systems. Eventually the containers are either sent back or auctioned off by CBP, like this stuff.[1]
Some shippers outside the US have stopped shipping to the US until this settles. This includes all the major laptop makers - Lenovo, Acer, Dell, etc.[2] Nobody wants to be caught with a container in transit, a big customs bill due on receipt, and storage charges. That will recover once the rates are stable for a few weeks. Probably.
Customs and Border Protection is trying to keep up. Sometimes you have to pay more because Trump raised tariffs. Sometimes you can get a credit back because Trump dropped tariffs. Those are all exception transactions, with extra paperwork and delays.
Where's the Flexport guy from YC? He should be able to explain all this.
Consumer version: expect to see some empty shelves, rejected orders, and higher prices for the next few weeks.
[1] https://bid.cwsmarketing.com/auctions/catalog/id/167
[2] https://www.techspot.com/news/107504-trump-tariffs-force-maj...

by owenversteeg

9 subcomments

I’m not seeing anyone discuss this here, so I figured I’d raise an important point: this style of tariffs is crushing for US manufacturing. While a universal tariff with no exceptions incentivizes domestic manufacturing, a selective tariff with specific industry exceptions is absolute poison.
You might think, as the authors of this exemption did, “well then we will exempt computer parts.” Then people will simply import the parts. But if you manufacture those parts in the US, you are suddenly at a massive disadvantage. Your computer parts factory likely runs using a large amount of imported raw materials, imported machines, and imported tooling, and there are no tariff exemptions for those broad categories… so you’re screwed. Oftentimes there is no reasonable domestic substitute. You will go out of business in favor of someone importing the parts, which now happens tariff-free under an exemption. That’s why, generally speaking, tariff exemptions are deadly to domestic manufacturing.

by righthand

8 subcomments

Why is no one highlighting how this is repeating history 8 years ago? I don’t get it, there’s this magical reporting gap where all of this is new strategy but it’s the exact same strategy. Why don’t we acknowledge this instead of searching for some new angle?
Here are a bunch of links from 2018/2019:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/13/apple-dodges-iphone-tariff-a...
https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/investing/t052-s001-14-s...
https://www.texastribune.org/2019/06/07/trump-tariff-threat-...
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/trumps-tariff-str...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-to-delay-tariff-increases...
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/19/hundreds-of-chines...
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/china-threatens-retalia...
https://www.cfr.org/blog/trumps-tariffs-are-killing-american...

by walterbell

1 subcomments

Per Bloomberg, 20% fentanyl tariff on China still applies and these categories may yet receive their own unique tariff, https://archive.is/jKupW

The exemption categories include components and assembled products, https://content.govdelivery.com/bulletins/gd/USDHSCBP-3db9e5...

  8471       ADP (Automatic Data Processing) Machines: PCs, servers, terminals.
  8473.30    Parts for ADPs: keyboards, peripherals, printers.
  8486       Machines for producing semiconductors & ICs: wafer fab, lithography.
  8517.13    Mobile phones and smartphones.
  8517.62    Radios, router, modems.
  8523.51    Radio/TV broadcasting equipment.
  8524       2-way radios.
  8528.52    Computer monitors and projectors (no TVs).

  8541.10    Diodes, transistors and similar electronic components
  8541.21    LEDs
  8541.29    Photodiodes and non-LED diodes
  8541.30    Transistors
  8541.49.10 Other semiconductors that emit light
  8541.49.70 Optoelectronics: light sensors, solar cells
  8541.49.80 Photoresistors
  8541.49.95 Other semiconductor devices
  8541.51.00 LEDs for displays
  8541.59.00 Other specialized semiconductor devices
  8541.90.00 Semiconductor parts: interconnects, packaging, assembly
  8542       Electronic ICs

Industrial-scale workarounds were developed for previous tariffs, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43652823. Such loopholes will need to be addressed in any new trade agreements.

by cranium

6 subcomments

The 145% tariff is so absurd I wouldn't be surprised to see cheap chips glued to the item to exploit the exceptions.
"Oh yeah, that's not a shoe: it's the protective case for an ESP32 WiFi router".

by dhx

0 subcomment

Exempt items are:
8471: Computers.
8473.30: Computer parts.
8486: Semiconductor manufacturing equipment.
8517.13.00: Smartphones.
8517.62.00: Network equipment.
8523.51.00: Solid state media.
8524 and 8528.52.00: Computer displays.
8541.* (with some subheadings excluded): Semiconductor components EXCEPT LEDs, photovoltaic components, piezoelectric crystals).
8542: Integrated circuits.
The 8541.* category exclusions are interesting. Does the US self-produce all required quantities of LEDs and piezoelectric crystals and doesn't need to import those? Is the exception on photovoltaic components to discourage American companies from producing solar panels?
[1] https://hts.usitc.gov/search?query=[INSERT HEADING CODE HERE. EXAMPLE: 8471]

by Loughla

2 subcomments

Is nice that my family's small business is set to get absolutely crushed by tariffs at the end of the month while large tech companies are exempt. Thank goodness for America first policies. So cool. Very cool.

by jpster

5 subcomments

I suspect it would be a good idea if the US abolished the presidency and moved to a parliamentary system. Turns out that concentrating so much power in a single position is a bad idea.

by seafoamteal

3 subcomments

Has the Proton CEO acknowledged just how farcically off base he was when he said the GOP was the party of small businesses?

by yellow_lead

1 subcomments

This link is better:
https://wccftech.com/trumps-reciprocal-tariffs-have-reported...
Or, the primary source seems to be:
https://content.govdelivery.com/bulletins/gd/USDHSCBP-3db9e5...
But you'd have to look up those codes to know they're for PCs, smartphones

by steveBK123

1 subcomments

So we are exempting all the tech transfer & natsec risk items but maintaining new embargo-level tariffs on cameras, children's toys, and t-shirts.
Makes a lot of sense if you don't think about it.

by steveBK123

0 subcomment

In a dark sense this is probably perfect for him.
He announces big tough tariffs on China, his base claps, hoots and hollers. He quietly walks it back via internal memo to CBP on a Friday night.
His base gets to see him be tough on China, without actually suffering any consequences of goods shortages or price increases.

by throw0101d

4 subcomments

There are valid reasons for tariffs:
* https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/when-are-tariffs-good
Especially when it comes to certain areas of the economy:
> Democratic countries’ economies are mainly set up as free market economies with redistribution, because this is what maximizes living standards in peacetime. In a free market economy, if a foreign country wants to sell you cheap cars, you let them do it, and you allocate your own productive resources to something more profitable instead. If China is willing to sell you brand-new electric vehicles for $10,000, why should you turn them down? Just make B2B SaaS and advertising platforms and chat apps, sell them for a high profit margin, and drive a Chinese car.
> Except then a war comes, and suddenly you find that B2B SaaS and advertising platforms and chat apps aren’t very useful for defending your freedoms. Oops! The right time to worry about manufacturing would have been years before the war, except you weren’t able to anticipate and prepare for the future. Manufacturing doesn’t just support war — in a very real way, it’s a war in and of itself.
* https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/manufacturing-is-a-war-now
> China has rapidly established itself as the world’s dominant shipbuilding power, marginalizing the United States and its allies in a strategically important industry. In addition to building massive numbers of commercial ships, many Chinese shipyards also produce warships for the country’s rapidly growing navy. As part of its “military-civil fusion” strategy, China is tapping into the dual-use resources of its commercial shipbuilding empire to support its ongoing naval modernization
* https://www.csis.org/analysis/ship-wars-confronting-chinas-d...
But none of the current "reasons"—which may simply be rationalizations / retcons by underlings for one man's fickle will—really make much sense:
* https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/all-the-arguments-for-tariffs-...

by crawsome

1 subcomments

It's so painful watching this administration be forced to react to their preventable mistakes in-real-time with no repercussions.
One thing is throwing and seeing what sticks, but at the seat of the presidency, it seems like such an antipattern for leadership. And yet, the support is unwavering. It's exhausting.

by kevin_thibedeau

13 subcomments

Seems a bit anti-business to have an unequal playing field just for the star-bellied sneetches. Also silly that those with the biggest piles of capital are getting exemptions when the whole purpose of this exercise is to spur local investment in manufacturing. If anything, small businesses below some threshold of revenue/staff should be getting exemptions.

by cinbun8

36 subcomments

From an outsider’s perspective, it’s difficult to discern any coherent U.S. strategy—assuming one even exists. One day it’s a 145% tariff on China. The next, it’s “Well, it’s still 145%, but Apple and Nvidia are exempted because their stock prices might take a hit.” Then comes a 90-day pause, adding to the confusion.
It’s not clear whether Jamieson Greer is actually steering this, or if any of it was thoroughly thought through.

by peteforde

2 subcomments

I listened the book "Lucky Loser" (Craig/Buettner) a few months back. It's a well-researched timeline of how the Trump fortune was made, and to be really kind, how monumentally terrible DJT is at business on a fundamental level. The shady deals and repulsive ethics are not exceptions but the status quo. The only reason he's in the situation he's in is because the guy who created Survivor saw an opportunity. Now the whole world is paying the price.
I listened because I thought it would be funny, but the shitty behaviour and unapologetic corruption is just so naked that it actually left me feeling pretty upset for all of the obvious reasons.
I'd say that I don't understand how anyone can be charmed by this con artist, but the truth is that I have simply lost a ton of faith in the "average" person.

by sleepyguy

0 subcomment

https://www.marketwatch.com/articles/tariffs-exclusions-exem...
>This latest round of tariff rates is currently set at 125% for Chinese goods and a 10% tax on imports from other trading partners. China also had an additional 20% tax on its goods that began in March, bringing its total to 145%.
Importers of these electronics will no longer face the newest taxes, and it cuts the Chinese rate down to 20% for them. The exceptions cover $385 billion worth of 2024 imports, 12% of the total. It includes $100 billion from China, 23% of 2024 imports from there. For these electronics, the average tax rate went from 45% to 5% with this rule.
The biggest global exemption is the import category that includes PCs and servers, with $140 billion in 2024 imports, 26% of it from China. Circumstances may change again, but this benefits AI king Nvidia, server-makers like Dell, Hewlett Packard Enterprise
HPE
+2.91% , and Super Micro, and PC makers like Dell and HP
HPQ
+2.49% . The average tax rate went from 45% to 5% here, according to Barron’s calculations.
The biggest newly exempt category for Chinese goods is smartphones, with $41 billion in 2024 U.S. imports, 81% of all smartphone imports. A 145% tax on that would be $60 billion, but even the new 20% tax is a hefty $8 billion.

by jmclnx

1 subcomments

I cannot read it, but didn't China restrict the export of some tech related items as part of their tariffs ?
I remember hearing those items are need to make assemble some components needed for some boards.
I hope Wall Street is still hammering this admin. on why these tariffs are bad.

by ajross

1 subcomments

Pointed it out in the other thread, but this is a capitulation. China imposed retaliatory tariffs that remain in effect! There are a handful of businesses that do indeed export to China, and the net effect here is that they've all been thrown under the bus. China gets to kill/pick/control them at will now.

by Havoc

0 subcomment

And in ~24hr policy will zigzag again
It's not like businesses need to plan or anything so this is great

by jccalhoun

0 subcomment

I'm not economist. Maybe tariffs could work. (It seems like most of the experts say they don't. And how they were determined certainly seems especially dumb) However, it doesn't take a genius to see that enacting them without advance notice to prepare for them is the worst way to do it. Give companies time to prepare. Give countries time to negotiate. The result would be the same without the uncertainty and chaos. Unless this really is some plan for the rich to short stocks and make a killing in the market, I don't see how this implementation would be a good idea to anyone.

by wraaath

0 subcomment

Here's the set of categories exempted from the tariffs (via perplexity) Original source: https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDHSCBP/bulletins/... Backup: https://archive.is/el9Mz
via Perplexity:
8471: Automatic data-processing machines and units thereof, including computers, laptops, disc drives, and other data processing equipment.
8473.30: Parts and accessories for automatic data-processing machines, such as components used in computers.
8486: Machines and apparatus for the manufacture of semiconductor devices or electronic integrated circuits.
8517.13.00: Mobile phones (cellular telephones) or other wireless network devices.
8517.62.00: Communication apparatus capable of connecting to a network, such as routers and modems.
8523.51.00: Solid-state storage devices (e.g., flash drives) used for recording data.
8524: Recorded media, such as DVDs, CDs, and other optical discs.
8528.52.00: Flat-panel displays capable of video playback, including monitors and televisions.
8541.10.00: Diodes, including light-emitting diodes (LEDs).
8541.21.00: Transistors with a dissipation rate of less than 1 watt.
8541.29.00: Other transistors not specified elsewhere.
8541.30.00: Thyristors, diacs, and triacs used in electronics.
8541.49.10 to 8541.49.95: Semiconductor devices such as integrated circuits (ICs) categorized by specific types or functions.
8541.51.00: Semiconductor devices designed for photovoltaic applications (solar cells).
8541.59.00: Other semiconductor devices not elsewhere classified.
8541.90.00: Parts of semiconductor devices or electronic integrated circuits.
8542: Electronic integrated circuits, including microprocessors and memory chips.

by seanmcdirmid

0 subcomment

He definitely blinked. Also illegal immigrants who work in hotels and on farms won’t be deported. Weird.

by inverted_flag

1 subcomments

I’ve noticed that the pro-trump posters have been quiet on this site recently, pretty funny.

by chvid

4 subcomments

What imports of size from China are then under full tariffs?
Seems silly just to mess up a few toy importers.

by emsign

0 subcomment

The question that is in everybody's head: How long until he changes his mind on that too?

by aoeusnth1

1 subcomments

One of the most surprising things about this announcement is that it didn't happen during business hours where the insiders could buy call options before hand.

by Taniwha

0 subcomment

I manufacture a small open source product in China, I also warehouse there (because shipping is so much cheaper). About 1/3 of my customers live in the US, other customers live in countries that charge tariffs, they have to deal with local customs or post offices to pay what they owe, it's not something that's really an issue for me (except for occasionally helping people track down missing packages).
Currently shipping out of China seems disrupted, more because the shipping companies are leary about getting stuck with the tariffs, the US doesn't have the infrastructure to collect them, Post Offices don't have the bandwidth, people can't take time off work etc etc - that may change, but it's not something that can change overnight
Trump's exemption for computer stuff will likely mean that my packages will eventually sail through, but I'm about to do another build, China's reciprocal tariffs will affect my cost of parts and it's a bit unfair making my non-US customers pay for this silly pointless trade war, since the silliness changes every day I think I;m just going to wait this out for a month or two

by wnc3141

1 subcomments

My cynical read is that there will eventually be complete corporate capture of these tariffs. Then firms will try to protect their carveouts that make unfair advantages.
Its about their corporate supporters choosing winners and losers. Its the only reason I can conjure that corporate America has otherwise been silent.

by tim333

0 subcomment

And they're back(?):
>NOBODY is getting “off the hook” for the unfair Trade Balances, and Non Monetary Tariff Barriers, that other Countries have used against us, especially not China which, by far, treats us the worst! There was no Tariff “exception” announced on Friday. These products are subject to the existing 20% Fentanyl Tariffs, and they are just moving to a different Tariff “bucket.” The Fake News knows this, but refuses to report it. We are taking a look at Semiconductors and the WHOLE ELECTRONICS SUPPLY CHAIN in the upcoming National Security Tariff Investigations...
(truth social Apr 13, 2025, 8:36 PM. You need the day and time to see what the tariffs are that particular hour really)

by howard941

0 subcomment

They're called reciprocal but the Chinese tariffs on US goods looks like they're gonna stay. That and dumping our bonds doesn't bode well for the rest of us.

by atomicbeanie

1 subcomments

Time to just call these tariffs: sales tax. Extra money for the government on all goods imported are taxes. The rest of the complexity distracts from the basic cash flow and the inevitable results. More money spent and consumed by the government.

by vdupras

2 subcomments

Nothing means anything anymore. This of course will change completely on monday, then again on tuesday. Of course in the spirit of insider plundering. This circus will go on until we hear the magic words "the chocolate rations have been increased by 20g".

by SamuelAdams

0 subcomment

Actual source: https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDHSCBP/bulletins/...

by api

0 subcomment

So we are going to… uhh… tariff and try to repatriate a lot of lower value less strategically important manufacturing while giving up on higher value strategic stuff like chips?

by mppm

2 subcomments

This is pretty much how I expected this to play out, at least for now. Trump acts all tough and doesn't back down publicly, but China actually doesn't back down. So what happens is that some businesses get exemptions to mitigate the impact. Then some fine print gets changed about how the rules are enforced. Like, suddenly it turns out that Kiribati is a major electronics supplier to the US :)
End result - US economy takes a hit, China takes a smaller hit. Trade balance widens further, most likely. The rich get richer, while many small companies struggle to survive.

by techpineapple

2 subcomments

Wasn’t Howard Lutnick on TV recently explicitly saying they wanted to bring iPhone assembly here? How is one to understand the union of these two perspectives?
https://fortune.com/2025/04/07/howard-lutnick-iphones-americ...

by jmward01

1 subcomments

This is a massive sign that Trump's double down strategy is failing badly. He only has one play: Be a bully and double down any time someone fights back. It works when you have the leverage but as soon as you don't anymore you loose, big. The US just ran out of leverage. I don't know about everyone else but I just started looking into how to move money and investments outside the US.

by yodsanklai

1 subcomments

Who would have guessed.

by qgin

0 subcomment

Not something you would do if there was any chance of a larger deal near term

by almog

0 subcomment

That might explain why Apple's stock was leading the rally yesterday...

by seydor

0 subcomment

He really seems delighted when foreign countries reach out to him and to his friends for "making deals". It's all about personal connections with his big supporters and donors, who are all apparently part of the greater government now. It should be called the "recorruption" of the US.
The US is about to find out that the rest of the world is much more adelt dealing with a corrupt government because they have more experience with it

by A1vis

1 subcomments

The media coverage seems a bit weird to me. The primary source was released 12 hours ago, but when I did a bit of research 4 hours ago I only saw a few reports from dubious Chinese sources like this: https://www.zhitongcaijing.com/content/detail/1277768.html
Then about 2 hours ago all major media outlets were covering it.

by thih9

0 subcomment

I’m not from the US, after news like this I’m more likely to perceive US as unreliable - and more likely to buy Chinese alternatives too.

by i_love_retros

0 subcomment

I'm not buying anything except essential items (mostly just food) for the foreseeable future.
I imagine lots of people will do the same.
Surely this will cause a recession.
MAGA!

by gotorazor

0 subcomment

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/technology/apple-nvidia-dell...

by ghusto

1 subcomments

Slightly off-topic, but is the result of the USA tariff "trade-war" mean that we get to trade at a discount with China in Europe? What I mean is, since it's cheaper for China to trade with us in Europe now, does that mean we gain some bargaining power?

by ken47

0 subcomment

Behind the apparent waffling, the one constant is the administration’s effort to direct hatred towards China. You have American military leaders predicting an invasion of Taiwan in a specific time window. It’s all a circus.

by perihelions

15 subcomments

This reads to me as "we're doubling-down on 145%+ tariffs for everyone else".
This is getting frighteningly close to a Russian-style economy. As in, a handful of powerful, connected "insiders" will be allowed to operate businesses, and will dominate... while everyone else gets wiped out, by acts of government. The furthest system possible from the free-market paradigm that built the American economy as it stands today.
Russia is not a prosperous nation.

by lightedman

0 subcomment

Other businesses not exempt from these tariffs should sue for violation of equal protection. Equal protection under the law means equal treatment under the law and this absolutely is not equal treatment at all.

by Zufriedenheit

0 subcomment

I think with these erratic changes, the US government is paralyzing the economy. How are businesses supposed to restructure their supply lines if policy changes every 48h?

by cmurf

0 subcomment

The corruption is the plan. The tariffs are the boot on everyone's neck. Carve outs based on friend, foe, and bribes adjust the pressure. This will be on-going and capricious.

by graycat

1 subcomments

Computers and China? Hmm ....
For my next computer, e.g., for a Web server, considering an AMD processor, Gigabyte mother board, Western Digital disks (rotating and/or solid state), main memory, video display, etc.
Just checked, none of that comes from China!!! The businesses are in Taiwan, South Korea, the US. Manufacturing is in Taiwan, Thailand, Malaysia, South Korea. The processor design, the US. The equipment for manufacturing the chips, Holland.
So, for my startup, I'm happy!
For a smart phone -- not much interested.

by frogperson

0 subcomment

Isn't this the same scam that Yelp pulls?

by melbourne_mat

0 subcomment

So a 145% tariff on high tech goods will hurt the US too much? China should ban high tech exports to the US. That's gonna hurt both sides but the war was already started by Trump.

by techpineapple

0 subcomment

How bananas is it that Trump ran against big tech and now big tech is the winner while mom and pop shops are the losers.

by Hikikomori

1 subcomments

Art of the deal.

by CodeCrusader

1 subcomments

Seems like the tariffs are becoming a lot more complicated, and it is possible that it is happening by design

by 42772827

0 subcomment

As if the US would make the propaganda machine / spy device / tracker more expensive

by TheAlchemist

8 subcomments

It's not even a week since Secretary of Commerce Lutnick was explaining how he wants to bring back millions of jobs 'screwing the little screws in iPhones' to Amercia ?
There is really a good chance that we will develop a deep understanding of how the French Revolution happened and why they went straight to guillotines.

by uwagar

0 subcomment

if they had planned all the tariff rates and things that get tariffed so well, why the see-saw? they are making up as they go along. this is worse than an incompetent biden!

0 subcomment

by atoav

0 subcomment

After that wishy-washy flip-flopper with his tariff-trainwreck I wonder how many people will still go for the comforting fantasy that he is in fact "playing 4D chess"?
People that didn't care about his moral failings, the lying, how he treats women may care about him just being incompetent to the degree that the things he operates would fare better if he did nothing, especially if they have to pay the bill.
For Trump behaving erratic is a feature, as it favours people who have sworn loyalty and who Trump has deemed worthy as they at least might get a little head ups (enough for the stock market).
Sadly this turns the US not only into an absolute laughing stock, it also makes any business with it a risky one.

by ajross

1 subcomments

Ugh. Note that this is a capitulation. China's retaliatory import tariff rate remains in effect, and they get to decide which industries to relax, if any. The net effect is that if you're in one of the handful of businesses that export to China, the Trump administration threw you under the proverbial bus.

by beardyw

0 subcomment

Perhaps the task of rewriting history needs to start right away.

by wslh

0 subcomment

Trump's unpredictable tariff decisions challenged long-standing investment assumptions, even shaking confidence in U.S. Treasury bills, assets once considered the safest in the world. It showed how a handful of people can make global markets, and people's lives tremble.

by FrustratedMonky

0 subcomment

So, Tim Cooks donations and genuflections, paid off?

by differentView

1 subcomments

95+% of his tariffs will be walked back within a year.

by superkuh

0 subcomment

Anyone have a readable mirror that contains text?

by EasyMark

0 subcomment

So the broligarchs get an escape hatch and everyone else (particularly the middle class) has to pay up to appease the ego of the worst president in US history? This seems like a bad economic and very undemocratic plan that we're getting here.

by wood_spirit

0 subcomment

So is china also giving an exemption?

by cavisne

0 subcomment

So now the finished products are tariff free, but the input costs when bought into America are tariffed. The exact opposite of what you would want to do to bring manufacturing back to America.

by cantrecallmypwd

0 subcomment

Welcome to technofeudalism.

by throwaway5752

0 subcomment

Realize the administration is not competent or ethical. It fits their behavior and has predictive value.

by Nihilartikel

0 subcomment

So now it just sounds like my favorite imported soy sauce will be more expensive.
Can't wait for the Pittsburgh soy sauce brewery industry to be onshored again!

by jwmoz

0 subcomment

Bond yields are king

by SergeAx

0 subcomment

So, America decided not to "reshore" that from China, but textile and plastic slop from AliExpress, right?

by pcurve

1 subcomments

Not full exemption. They're still subject to the 20% tariff (instead of the ridiculous 145%) so Trump can save his face.

by lifeinthevoid

1 subcomments

Can the other countries implement “export tariffs” on said goods? Would be a nice move to mess with Trump.

by ChoGGi

0 subcomment

Trump's implementation of tariffs seems to be taking 4 chess boards and smashing them together.

0 subcomment

by dashtiarian

1 subcomments

It actually feels nice to see US people having a taste of the kind of government their intelligence service force other nations to have by coups, except that it does not feel nice at all. I'm sorry guys.

by arunabha

0 subcomment

I was following HN guidelines and trying to come up with the most charitable interpretation. However, try a I might, I can't come up with anything better than 'sheer incompetence'
Tariffs can work, but they need to be paired with sound industrial policy and careful, strategic implementation. At the best of times, it takes a decade plus for the results to start showing.
Instead of that, so far we have seen
* Tariffs imposed as executive orders under a dubious exercise of the National Emergencies Act. This alone pretty much guarantees that they will be rolled back by the next president
* Zero participation from Congress and not even a pretense of attempting to build a bipartisan consensus
* Haphazard implementation with rates and countries affected whiplashing wildly from day to day
* Immediate capitulation at the first sign of trouble.
At this point we have shown the world that
* There is no real plan and probably never was a plan
* Trump has no actual stomach for a fight. Big economies like China can just wait for Trump to fold completely
* No one should be rushing to invest in the US given the shaky legal and political foundations of the tariffs
We brought our economy to the brink of a financial crisis, alienated all of our long standing allies, destroyed confidence in the US Dollar and economy, eased off tariffs on China while China has done no such thing and our exports to them are still tariffed at over 100%.
All of this for no real policy gains. It would be laughable if the consequences to us and future generations weren't so dire.

by icedchai

0 subcomment

This certainly is a surprise. :eyeroll:

by jeswin

5 subcomments

I am among the few who think it might eventually prove itself a good idea.
To start with, Europe has no good cards to play. Ultimately, Europe will side with the United States while it builds self-sufficiency on several fronts, especially defense. Europe also recognizes that the complete relocation of production capacity into China wasn't good in the long run; it's just that they had no ability to act on their own.
The US has repeatedly suggested publicly that it's not entirely about tariffs, and more might have been said privately. The tariffs the EU and Britain will drop are probably not what the US is after; what the US wants is to reduce global demand for Chinese manufacturing. Europe will find it easier to sell this—bringing manufacturing back and protectionism even at the cost of say, welfare and environment—to the public due to the violent shakedown over the past two weeks, as well as what happened with Ukraine and Russia. Ongoing European emergency measures to increase defense spending will be followed by incentives to rebuild strategic industry—like how China supported civilian–military partnership with policy.
Meanwhile the Indian government is already looking for ways to replace Chinese imports with US imports, where it can [1]. Japan and North Korea will follow suit; Trump is already saying that Korea needs to pay for US troops.
The US is (in my view) on solid footing here. At the very least, they get better trade deals from everyone else—Europe, India, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc. A number of companies will move production back into the US, and the government can prioritize those with more military value (chip-making, batteries, cars, shipbuilding [2] , etc.). And if the US can convince others to start decoupling from China, this will weaken Chinese manufacturing capacity.
Given the pain it's going to inflict in the short term, Trump is the only person who could have started this trade war. There might have been ways to do this without such a shake-up, but I am not convinced that this was a stupid move.
This was an anti-China move right from the beginning, disguised as an outrage against everyone's tariffs.
[1]: https://www.financialexpress.com/business/industry/replace-c...
[2]: https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3306177/u...
To clarify: none of this is China's fault. They did a fantastic job for their country, pulling hundreds of millions of people out of poverty.

by giarc

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Smartphones getting exemptions? Didn't the administration talk about how American's would be tightening screws on iPhones as they brought back these jobs? I'm starting to think they don't know what they are doing.... /s

by know-how

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by throw04

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by codesun99

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by BuckRogers

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by greatgib

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by safgasCVS

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May I propose a tinfoil hat perspective on tariffing China: America is prepping the ground for a full war with China. That's the only position that make sense to me other than the obvious "these guys are all corrupt idiots". I don't know which is which but at least the war perspective makes more sense to me. I believe we are at the propaganda stage where allies will be 'encouraged' into adopting similar positions and portraying China as a global threat. Nations such as India, Philippines, Taiwan, South Korea and Australia are already encouraged to act highly aggressively towards China whenever possible. Given most of those countries political elite worship America and long to send their kids to Harvard they will comply and willingly allow their countries to be used as cannon fodder to maintain Western hegemony. The sweet-talking of Russia is an attempt to recreate the Sino-Russian split during the cold war and at least ensure Russia doesn't fight alongside China in a war. None of this is related to bringing jobs back, nation building or caring one bit about blue collar workers. its an attempt to maintain the American global hegemony that China very clearly threatens. If Trump and his close supporters can get filthy rich from this then all the better.

by throw0101d

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There are valid reasons for tariffs:
* https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/when-are-tariffs-good
Especially when it comes to certain areas of the economy:
> Democratic countries’ economies are mainly set up as free market economies with redistribution, because this is what maximizes living standards in peacetime. In a free market economy, if a foreign country wants to sell you cheap cars, you let them do it, and you allocate your own productive resources to something more profitable instead. If China is willing to sell you brand-new electric vehicles for $10,000, why should you turn them down? Just make B2B SaaS and advertising platforms and chat apps, sell them for a high profit margin, and drive a Chinese car.
> Except then a war comes, and suddenly you find that B2B SaaS and advertising platforms and chat apps aren’t very useful for defending your freedoms. Oops! The right time to worry about manufacturing would have been years before the war, except you weren’t able to anticipate and prepare for the future. Manufacturing doesn’t just support war — in a very real way, it’s a war in and of itself.
* https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/manufacturing-is-a-war-now
> China has rapidly established itself as the world’s dominant shipbuilding power, marginalizing the United States and its allies in a strategically important industry. In addition to building massive numbers of commercial ships, many Chinese shipyards also produce warships for the country’s rapidly growing navy. As part of its “military-civil fusion” strategy, China is tapping into the dual-use resources of its commercial shipbuilding empire to support its ongoing naval modernization
* https://www.csis.org/analysis/ship-wars-confronting-chinas-d...
But none of the current "reasons"—which may simply be rationalizations / retcons by underlings for one man's fickle will—really make much sense:
* https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/all-the-arguments-for-tariffs-...