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Hacker News Hacker NewsI had no idea it was the misery of the IT job that was causing most of my pain and suffering, and it had nothing to do with the job itself, it was the endless insanity of everyone else around me doing exactly what they were informed would cause problems instead of having discussions with people that actually knew how shit worked. I was endlessly picking up everyone elses mess and treated worse than a pile of shit all because people were incapable of having a speck of respect for other people since all their hatred for computers fell on me
I GTFO of the career of misery and took half a decade to finally start feeling better
I have now spent years and countless hours working on software and I greatly enjoy doing this work again and find I get even more done than I used to simply by doing life the way I need to instead of how some backwards/abusive control freak "needs it done"
Why is it so hard to explain the solution briefly, or directly present it to me upfront. Why does it need so much of mystery around it?
In this article the OP does not even mention "Pain reprocessing theory" which is what they seems to be talking about (based on the study they have linked)
This is the first of several blog posts exploring this invisible condition.
If you're passionate about this space feel free to reach out, thanks!
[1] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7215a1.htm [data from 2021]
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[Edit] Thanks so much everyone! Excited to get the next article out soon!
I’ve been on the slippery slope of chronic pain. Minor post surgery issues caused me to change my routine and avoid certain activities which only exacerbated the issues, which led to more avoidance. Eventually I couldn’t walk.
The American medical system is very focused on avoiding health issues that show up on mri, rather than quality of life health. But quality of life issues quickly become serious.
I think the middle ground of activity: not all out intense as if you are healthy, but also not avoiding movement is so challenging to find for many people but also so crucial. A lot of chronic pain for myself and I suspect for many others could be avoided with short and quick combination of therapy and daily movement. So simple but so challenging to effectively identify and allocate resources.
Not suggesting this is the total solution but it’s the pathway that I took to return to activity and I’ve seen it help a number of my friends as well.
I hesitate to add a link to this on the thread, but there is an interesting story around chronic pain actually being psychological and there are now some high quality studies coming out.
https://journals.lww.com/painrpts/Fulltext/2021/09000/Psycho...
I especially hate to link to LessWrong but this is an actually decent thread on the topic:
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/BgBJqPv5ogsX4fLka/the-mind-b...
I didn't know about any of this and had never been exposed to any of it when I drew my conclusions and started to feel less pain. Don't get me wrong, there are still things that will set my back off, but now I probably go actual years without even thinking about it.
The question of why is out of scope.
In this case, docs just don’t know why. (I think it kinda pisses them off not know, tbh). And finding out is not really in their wheelhouse.
I’ve made some life changes (new job) to see what happens here. But I also have to be prepared for the possibility that it doesn’t fix it. Been working through The Body Keeps The Score as well.
Looking forward to seeing what the author discusses here.
Don’t let yourself be gaslit that it’s all mental. It seems some do have that, but there are also many hard to diagnose and completely valid physical health conditions that cause terrible chronic pain. And don’t give up on trying to find out what they are. Once I did, I was able to largely manage mine, and more importantly, to stop constantly questioning my own sanity.
[0] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/reflect-track-anything/id64638...
As he does point out he is not a doctor and his solution is not backed by extensive medical studies.
He could just write a document laying it all out, and letting people download it, easier for everyone.
(and try to get some researchers do the chekcing).
This is damn close to snakeoil.
Anyone who is accumulating weird pains in random, different locations should definitely pursue some of these alternative explanations. Another sign that these techniques are appropriate is if the pains come and go depending on your mood or situation (worse when working, disappear when doing something fun) or are prone to suggestion (someone talks about their back pain and then you have back pain for the following days or weeks).
However, I’m also getting tired of the people who benefit from this techniques deciding that their explanation for chronic pain covers everyone. It’s a huge trend in parts of tech Twitter right now to apply these theories to all chronic pain. A small number of people who had unexplainable pain and addressed it through meditation, therapy, and similar techniques are now pushing it as a far more universal explanation. It really needs to be applied to the appropriate situation, not used as a universal treatment for chronic pains.
This parallels similar trends with topics like PTSD, where a smaller group of people have benefited from therapy that addresses past trauma and now they’re trying to export the theory that past trauma and PTSD is the explanation for all psychological ills. Again, matching the right treatment to the condition is critical and being open-minded is important, but beware of people who are preaching that doctors are misinformed and you should subscribe to their app, blog, newsletter, or course instead.
To folks dealing with physical pain, I recommend: Built From Broken by Scott Hogan, Rehab Science by Tom Walters.
For joint issues these may help: celadrin, pro-resolving mediators, red mineral algae w/ aquamin, natural eggshell membrane, collagen peptides w/ fortigel.
But soon after, I developed constant headaches that never went away. At first, I assumed they were related to the procedure, but everything had healed well, and multiple check-ups didn’t reveal anything. Since then, my braces have been removed, but the daily headaches persist. Occasionally, I also feel a strange “foreign object” sensation around the implant site.
A follow-up CT scan of the implant showed perfect integration with the bone. I’ve also had other tests done, including a head MRI. Medically, everything appears normal.
It’s getting really hard to manage—painkillers don’t help at all. Has anyone experienced something similar or have any idea what to try next? I’m even considering having the implant removed, despite there being no medical reason for it.
I recently found out after a violent burn-out that a significant cause was chronic stress and its psychosomatic symptoms. It made me have a hard look at the topic, and I'm gradually adjusting to solve the issue.
If I get better, I'm tempted to do as OP and spend more time working on this issue for others. It seems so much more impactful than grinding the tech / startup life.
Several doctor visits concluded that it was the long hours and insane amount of stress that was severely crushing his immune system.
Moral of the story is love what you do and take care of yourself: nothing is as important as your own health and happiness
Ticks all the boxes:
- not a doctor
- not a physical therapist
- offering tips to solve your pain that somehow nobody could
- emphasizing a single "landmark" study with no other context
- results based off of personal experience
Guy is trying to become the RFK Jr of Aussie land.
First: With the exception of extreme health issues (e.g. Cancer), you likely have a good chance of resolving your health issues. Don’t be discouraged by your chronic pains and think you have to now live with the pain or health issues for the rest of your life. Tackle your health issues like any other engineering problem: understand the problem, make a plan, execute, monitor progress, and iterate over this process (e.g. revise your plans). If you do not take action, nothing will change.
Second: Stress is a killer. I’ve had to visit the emergency room twice because I thought I either had a heart attack or I was dying from high blood pressure. I was way too into my work (due to both passion and commitment), that delays with my projects gave me high mental pressure. Upon re-evaluating my life, I asked myself: which is more important, my work or my health? Once I started prioritizing my health and started pushing back on unreasonable timelines, my stress is gone and none of the chest pain, headache, and high blood pressure issues have come up again.
Last but not least: Your body is a very complex machine and you need to learn how to use it correctly. I had a very sedentary lifestyle and had many chronic pains, e.g. heels, ankles, knees, hip, elbow, wrist, etc. My body was so weak that I even injured my neck and back once just by sleeping in a not-so-great position. I found an awesome PT who specialized in holistic physical therapy and he helped address issues from my feet all the way to my neck. I am now able to resume all the activities from my younger days such as DDR & tennis. There’s too much to explain here but I have two key takeaways: one is my body was extremely tight & inflexible and PNF treatment from my PT was needed for recovery, and another is I just didn’t know my body and muscles well. I did not know how various muscles work, how to use my body & muscles effectively, and what exercises to do and their correct form. Learning and doing the exercises properly and frequently changed my life. Btw: I highly do NOT recommend all the YouTube fitness videos - you simply just cannot tell if what they’re saying is correct and whether their suggestion is even the correct remedy for your problem.
That is all. I wish everyone good luck in addressing their chronic pain!
In 2017, I was laid off of my job (of almost 27 years). I immediately started looking for work. Since the company I worked for, was a marquee-name company, I assumed that it wouldn't be hard.
Boy, was I in for a shock.
I almost immediately learned that no one in tech, is interested in hiring a 55-year-old, regardless of their pedigree. I could have gotten a job, but those companies made it clear that I would be treated quite badly.
So I made the decision to just throw in the towel and retire. I had the means, but I would have liked to have at least another ten years of salary. I have never had any intentions of stopping working, though. I love developing software. It's a hobby and a personal passion; not just a job.
I was really pissed off at the treatment. I suffered great butthurt.
But in the long run, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. I never realized how much stress I was under, while working. I sincerely believe that, if I had kept working, it would have killed me. I have no intentions of returning to the rodent rally; even though I'm quite good at what I do, thanks to all the learning that I've done, in the last eight years.
I now work every day (my GH Activity Graph is quite green), and do a fairly good job on my chosen projects, but I no longer feel that awful weight on my soul.
Sometimes, the only way that we learn how much pain we are in, is to stop suffering it for a while.
not a cure and barely a treatment but it's one of the only tools in the toolbox
Modulates endorphin receptors (by blocking them for a little while)
Not only causes the body to produce more endorphins to reduce pain but is actually proven in studies to make the ion channels work better if dysfunctional
I have had chronic pain and other annoying functional neurological symptoms for the past 4 years. It started about halfway throughout my PhD.
I was born with congenital torticollis (fibrosis of the right sternocleidomastoid muscle) and had surgery for this twice when I was young. I also had 3 other surgical procedures for different reasons as a child.
Because my pain started in my neck and shoulder, I was set on believing that my previous surgeries were the cause of my pain. But as I learned more, meditated more, did yoga more, and faced pushback (and lots of confusion) from health professionals, it became clear that my symptoms are mainly "mind-body" (I hate that dualistic term).
I'd be very interested in talking more.
It seems to be relatively common and under diagnosed. Also somehow controversial and not fully understood
However, looking into it might shed some light on some issues of chronic pain and potential ways to address it
What really struck me was that 1) the midwestern neurologist seemed to have never seen symptoms like mine, whereas the Stanford neurologist had seen them often, and 2) the Stanford neurologist linked it to poorly managed anxiety. At the time I was five years into a data scientist role at a big tech company in the bay area (now it's two year later - the symptoms improved somewhat but are still there). I definitely had burnout and mental health problems and was in denial about them ("I have all these great perks, how could my work be causing my mental health issues?").
The best thing you can say about BFS is it isn't physically painful; I am definitely not equating it with the chronic pain issues that others have described on this thread, which seem much tougher. It's another one of those things that has no known cure (diet / lifestyle / mental health improvements help somewhat), is only vaguely understood ("your nerves are oversensitive"), is linked to mental health issues, and seems overrepresented in the bay area (maybe in other tech/urban centers too, I don't know). Two years in, I don't have any answers, just wanted to share in case it's helpful to anyone.
I have 15 years in data, and 10 years in machine-learning. Back in 2016, I couldn't find a job doing machine-learning. These days, I don't worry anymore about finding work. Things have improved.
The "mind-body" thing is a great tool for doctors who are into abuse and take pleasure in having power over their patients.
"You are still having chronic pain, because you are not working hard enough!"
"No, I will not prescribe you medication. The pain is in your head!"
Oh and abusive partners also love this crap. You have a flare up? No you don't! You are just a lazy slob who doent't want to work and is whinging like a little baby. Stop imagining your pain!
GTFO with this crap.
I myself for example have had headache and migraine issues for more than 25 years. I understand deeply an incredible amount about what causes my migraines, how they feel, how I help with it, and so on. I understand migraines more than anyone else I ever know in my life because I observe, pay attention, study, and try different things so much. I understand it more than most doctors I talk to. But I also know that everyone's migraines are a little different and not everyone gets triggered by the same things (though there's a lot of overlaps) and my solutions may not help for everyone. I'd totally write something like this for migraines if I had the time (I don't :( ).
unnecessary disclaimer here. when it comes to chronic pain treatment doctors are mostly useless or even harmful, proposing surgeries or drugs that will do more bad than anything else because they have no interest in learning how to customize their approach and will parrot and prescribe what they heard from medical representatives. Remember, the opoids crisis was enabled by doctors in the first place.
Our bodies aren’t meant to be in one position for that long no matter the ergonomics unless you know what you’re doing.
Lots of people mock tiktok for the dancing but in observing the dances, I’ve grown an appreciation for full range of movement and trying to increase range of motion in the joints
I was able to find some exercises that helped in this to decompress but I can go into more detail if people want
I started the holiday super jaded with the idea of working in tech forever. I spent my time on everything but tech. Recently my passion has been reignited and I’ve got more clarity around what it is about tech and my career I enjoy, and what I want from my future.
Now, I’m working on a healthcare service for chronic disease.
I wish I could go back to completely undistracted building, but I realize now that I was a bit addicted and that level of intensity was hurting me.
Now what occupies my waking hours is, "How can I debug this failing system?"
The best I've been able to find is kratom, but that's not without its concerns -- drug laws are no friend to pain patients (let alone society as a whole).
Pro tip: get a shingles vaccine if you are able to -- postherpetic neuralgia is no fun.
As stated at the end, the authors of the study have a lot of conflicting interests.
I asked chatgpt to explain this to me and it did a poor job.
Generally speaking in my friend group. Chronic pain used to be opiods; though long ago medical cannabis came along. I couldnt tell you how many people i know who arent stoners who got into the cbd thing and fully got off opiods. 1 addiction for another, but at least cannabis has far less negatives.
>If you don’t have chronic pain and you’re just here for vibes and to see some cute brains, I really appreciate you .
The problem, CBD never fixes the pain. ~8 hours later you need more.
There's no business case for solving chronic pain. Here's my take.
1. There can be cases where there's something legitimately physically wrong causing chronic pain. In detroit I had a friend who got shot with birdshot, a tiny pellet was in his spine that surgeons didnt want to go after but there's no getting away from that pain. If this is the case, you're not seeking explanation.
2. There's stress/emotional pain. "The body keeps the score" by Bessel van der Kolk. He's big on EMDR and yoga. Your achilles pain and such absolutely could be, Probably something like 'change or abandonment' one of my favourites for yoga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XhJ63OQ7Ww
Do that 23 minute video and see if it helps.
3. Mindfulness meditation. Get into the most comfortable position possible. Dont move; and far more difficult dont think. Your mind will wander. If the pain is in your achilles. The only thing you're doing is monitoring the pain. What's the exact shape of the pain? Is it 4 inches long or is it only 2 inches? Is it sharp like a knife, or is it round in shape? Do you have any taste, smell, or sound from it? You need to wait as long as you have to, maybe it only makes a sound every 2 minutes, you have to wait and your focus is only on waiting for the sound and nothing else.
4. Yoga nidra or progressive muscle relaxation. Start at your toes, you try to flex the muscles to the maximum and hold for 5 seconds, release. then do your feet, ankles, legs, every muscle has to have been flexed and held for 5 seconds. Then when you're done, you simply do nothing at all. dont even focus on anything; maybe your breath at most.