by ZeroGravitas
2 subcomments
- A parallel worth bearing in mind is that LFP batteries became super popular over the last few years and are now 50% of all EV batteries worldwide, but are still rare in the US.
This is partly because the US is a richer market with higher end desires but it might mislead people in that geography into thinking that the battery mass manufacturing world moves slowly.
Meanwhile in the storage market it's gone to 90% LFP as the big deployments take advantage of the cost reductions available.
In fact the biggest impediment to sodium being rolled out was continuing reductions in LFP cost which made people less enhusiastic for alternatives.
It appears they've managed to drive costs down even further, prompting its graduation into mass scale manufacture.
- I can't stress enough how big a development this is in the process of making renewable energy not just the cheapest form of power, but one of the most reliable, something that will drive decarbonization in general, which will in turn drive world politics.
by hoistbypetard
3 subcomments
- I hope it's on the way, but I don't think the Pioneer Na is yet a sign of this revolution. This detailed review didn't leave me in a hurry to go get one, anyway:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoZ_g_MShTw
- It seems clear that na-ion batteries will replace large scale grid storage especially in cold climates. This isn't another hyped up battery.
- Have a look at The Limiting Factor episode "The Hype and Reality of Sodium Ion Batteries" https://youtu.be/KjiqqafD_0w?si=txe6eODkSiasSylg
It's really well done and digs into all the details on sodium-ion.
Lots to like with sodium-ion (charge rate for one) but cost isn't going to be competitive for at least 5 and more likely 10 years.
by president_zippy
2 subcomments
- Are there any better sources we should read for how and why sodium-ion batteries are better than lithium-ion batteries?
All I know is that the charge to mass ratio of an Na+ ion is less than that of an Li+ ion, and that elemental Na and Li are both highly-reactive with violent exothermic reactions when exposed to water. I need someone with chemistry or materials science experience to help me explain what the advantages are and how those advantages exist.
- If sodium batteries are so much cheaper, why is the emphasis of this article on batteries for trucks and not grid-scale storage? Isn't the latter much more impactful?
Also naively I would expect sodium batteries to be heavier that lithium, which would make them worse for transportation but still fine for energy storage.
by megaman821
1 subcomments
- People are over excited about sodium-ion batteries. They are at least years away from price parity. The super-low numbers floating around are absolute fantasy until production is in the tens of gigawatt hours at least. Their real value is being a hedge on lithium prices. If large battery manufacturer can trivially reconfigure their lines to make sodium-ion batteries, that will be a giant check on large lithium price spikes.
- Where are all the commenters about how China can't innovate and they can only steal technology now...
Reverse that, why don't other countries / companies try and steal their talent and IP? Is everyone resigned to think that China are undefeatable on the technology/manufacturing of these batteries?
- I skimmed through the article. It talks a lot about sodium ion batteries and how major vehicle and transportation companies are getting into making and using these batteries. It also talks about the cost aspect, with sodium ion being cheaper than lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries.
However, there is no mention of this technology in consumer devices and gadgets like laptops, smartphones and tablets. I get that the site is about clean technology as a replacement for the currently more polluting technology. But I’m interested to see when these sodium ion batteries will appear in phones and laptops and what difference they may make to the cost, price, weight, performance, safety, longevity, etc.
- Very interesting. I've been thinking for the past few years that new battery technology is really what will be the catalyst for the next generation of technology across all industries. I'm curious about their use in smaller consumer electronics, or if lithium will still be the standard for many more years to come.
by LikeBeans
1 subcomments
- For my EV, which I charge about once a week on average, with 4,000 cycles that means about 77 years!! That's a huge deal. CATL quoted 10k cycle battery too. Wow. Very cool. Yeah energy density and operating profile and all that. But color me impressed.
- Hope the economic of scale picked up and we would get 10% price of vehicle as battery cost
- That the worlds largest battery manufacturers have gone ahead with building gigawatt production plants
is basicly the wake up call. They have done this based on real world deploymemt of electric cars in multiple markets over the last 3 years and of course for the main use as storage and buffering batteries, which will then allow for the full electrification of the transport sector, without putting undue strain on the,(thier) grid.
this has further impact as energy costs will drop significantly, while noise and pollution also decrease dramaticaly,while increasing saftey and reiability.
any country holding back is seriously fucked.
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