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Time Immemorial turns 750: The Medieval law that froze history at 1189

63 points by zeristor

by jorams

2 subcomments

I found this article rather... unsatisfactory. So the statute introduced the concept of "time immemorial". Except it sort of didn't, it just introduced a limit that later came to be referred to as "time immemorial". It also doesn't call it anything like "the barrier between that which we know and that which we don’t.", but indeed it does mark a point after which oral history is no longer enough. On page 100 in the linked translation:
> That in conveighing a Descent in a Writ of Right, none shall presume to declare of the Seisin of his Ancestor further, or beyond the Time of King Richard, Uncle to King Hentry, Father to the King that now is;
It then says the term "time immemorial" was actually introduced by the Prescription Act 1832 (and links to a different page than it is talking about) but that actually says:
> Whereas the expression “time immemorial, or time whereof the memory of man runneth not to the contrary,” is now by the Law of England in many cases considered to include and denote the whole period of time from the Reign of King Richard the First, whereby the title to matters that have been long enjoyed is sometimes defeated by shewing the commencement of such enjoyment, which is in many cases productive of inconvenience and injustice;
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding this since it was written almost 200 years ago, but this reads like it is describing an existing term in use in the Law of England. A term supposedly introduced at some point between 1275 and 1831 to describe the limit introduced by the Statute of Westminster 1275.
The included history is interesting, but how this date turned into the concept of "time immemorial" remains unknown.

by flave

4 subcomments

I worked in the City (Citie) of London and have off and on taken an interest in the history.
Much of the special status of London was granted before 1189, and it retains its special because of time immemorial concept and English common law.
I won’t bore you with all the details but there’s loads of weird stuff like a mayor that only lasts a year, companies get the vote based on number of employees, separate police for from the rest of London etc etc. That’s barely scratching the surface.
Can’t easily be changed because some of the “rights and liberties” predates written common law and are “senior”. Of course, when push comes to shove they find a way but that rarely happens.

by solidsnack9000

0 subcomment

People like to criticize stuff like this but England was and is one of the most well-governed countries in the world. It was perhaps the leading center of development, technologically as well as in terms of institutions, from 1650 until 1900 or 1950, during which time its legal system was even more archaic.
Respect for pre-existing rights and arrangement isn't really such a big deal and rigorously exterminating that kind of stuff doesn't seem to be a requirement or even an advantage to modernity or having an ordered society.
The article's remark about "...legal daftness..." is anachronistic and absurd.

by rcxdude

1 subcomments

Interestingly, about 10% of land in England and Wales still isn't actually registered with the land registry. Mainly because registration only became compulsory fully in 1990 and still only when the land was sold or mortgaged.

by zeristor

0 subcomment

I remember my grandfather telling me if his grandfather’s fondness for the song of the Yellowhammer.
A sweet remembrance of someone and a time of 120 or so years earlier.

by cbdevidal

1 subcomments

It surprised me how easy it was to read a law written in 1275. That was the Middle English period, which I usually cannot decipher without help. To be fair though, I haven’t read much from that period.