- Random nerd note: The history is slightly wrong. Netscape had their own "interactive script" language at the time Sun started talking about Java and somehow got the front page of the Mercury news when they announced it in March of 1995. At the Third International World Wide Web Conference in Darmstadt Germany everyone was talking about it and I was roped into giving a session on it during lunch break (which then had to be stopped because no one was going to the keynote by SGI :-)). Everyone one there was excited and saying "forget everything, this is the future." So, Netscape wanted to incorporate it into Netscape Navigator (their browser) but they had a small problem which was that this was kind of a competitor to their own scripting language. They wanted to call it JavaScript to ride the coattails of the Java excitement and Sun legal only agreed to let them do that if they would promise to ship Java in their browser when it hit 1.0 (which it did in September of that year).
So Netscape got visibility for their language, Sun got the #1 browser to ship their language and they had leverage over Microsoft to extortionately license it for Internet Explorer. There were debates among the Java team about whether or not this was a "good" thing or not, I mean for Sun sure, but the confusion between what was "Java" was not. The politics won of course, and when they refused to let the standards organization use the name "JavaScript" the term ECMAScript was created.
So there's that. But how we got here isn't particularly germane to the argument that yes, we should all be able to call it the same thing.
- They now have GoFundMe where they are soliciting donations for a discovery phase of a <strike>patent</strike> trademark cancellation request.
They have just 50k USD out of 200k USD they are raising. (No idea if that's appropriate; from the outside, it seems like a lot of money, but also they are fighting Oracle which has unlimited money, so, yeah)
For some reason it's not linked in the page itself.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-us-challenge-oracles-javascr...
https://deno.com/blog/javascript-tm-gofundme
by siwatanejo
23 subcomments
- I actually think that people should rather use EcmaScript name instead of JavaScript, because it's a way better name (much less confusing, given that this lang doesn't have anything to do with Java anyway). I wish Oracle started suing people to force everyone to use the better name.
- Silly question: how are people negatively impacted by the trademark of "JavaScript"?
Because in practice, isn't this a bit like "Kleenex" - where everyone knows you mean "tissue" (EMCAScript).
by jamesbelchamber
2 subcomments
- Don't anthropomorphise the lawnmower.
by collinmanderson
7 subcomments
- The last time this was brought up, "WebScript" was mentioned as a possible alternative name. (Like WebAssembly, WebSockets, WebRTC, etc.)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45297066
by wiseowise
5 subcomments
- 1) Put JS in maintenance mode, don’t add any language features, only runtime
2) TS becomes the official mainline, whoever doesn’t like types can just keep writing as they did before, because valid JS is valid TS
Problem solved, it’s not that difficult.
- Why is this worth doing? What wrong with the status quo? The author does not give any examples of Oracle threatening people for using the JavaScript (tm) name.
by crazygringo
2 subcomments
- Should have [2024]. The "postmark" says Sep 16, 2024.
And the list of updates at the top says they've since filed a petition to dismiss the trademark, and Oracle has filed to dismiss the petition.
by trashburger
1 subcomments
- I wish JavaScript stopped being an abandoned trademark.
monkey paw's finger starts curling
- "If you do not act, we will challenge your ownership by filing a petition for cancellation with the USPTO."
So, just go ahead and do it already. Your cute letter isn't going to change anything.
- Let's stop calling it "JavaScript" entirely. "JS" is right there.
- How about we stop using Javascript completely or greatly limit its usage. It's time to go back to simple webpages that load instantly on modern hardware and that do not leak information about the user. JS makes it way, way too easy to track people on the Internet as it is.
by philipwhiuk
1 subcomments
- This is pointless. Oracle is not a democracy, it's a lawnmower.
- Can they drop javascript trademark without threating Java trademark?
- It's time to rename JavaScript.
by analogears
1 subcomments
- Speaking of JavaScript's evolution - I've been building a music player (muz11.com) and it's remarkable how far we've come. The Web Audio API, MediaSession for lock screen controls, smooth animations via requestAnimationFrame... all running client-side with no framework, just vanilla JS. Thirty years ago this would have required a desktop app and probably a record label deal.
The irony is that 'freeing' JavaScript from Oracle's trademark might matter less than freeing ourselves from the framework churn. The platform itself is incredibly capable now.
- i wish we instead dropped js for something vastly more sane.
by _fat_santa
2 subcomments
- Honest question for companies like Oracle, Google and Microsoft that own the trademark to Javascript, Go and Typescript respectively. What value does it bring to these companies to own these trademarks?
The only case I can really see is someone going off and creating another language and then proceeding to call it, Javascript, Typscript or Go and then using the same logo but I feel at that point the developer community would be pretty effective in sorting that out without getting lawyers involved.
- Let’s call it JoyScript so it still shortens to JS. And so at least the name as some joy in it even if the language doesn’t.
- This is a very weak letter. Oracle is using the mark in commerce, and the 2019 specimen is presumed valid unless affirmatively disproven. The fact that Oracle doesn’t charge licensing fees for use of the name is irrelevant. Calling something JavaScript ‘JavaScript’ is nominative use, and any attempt by Oracle to enforce against such truthful descriptive use would fail under nominative fair use.
- Maybe it's also time to find a better alternative, untrademarked name than Eczema Script.
- honourable of an idea as this is: "When its use has been discontinued with intent not to resume such us"
you will never ever be able to prove no intent to resume and as such the entire effort is beyond pointless
by shevy-java
1 subcomments
- It may have been a mistake to specify a name that can be trademarked in the first place.
- Oh, this reminds me of the horror days when Oracle deliberately rolled out spyware (Ask Toolbar) in the JRE (Java Runtime Environment) installer, that corporate admins and developers/testers inadvertently installed on millions of PCs.
Oracle never apologised for this sudden hijack (of an executable that was trusted and used by millions of IT people) and malicious behavior (no prior information given by Oracle for this malpractice), if I recall right.
I am sure that disaster was a wake up call for many developers and corporations to move away from Java dependency.
- While I completely agree with the sentiment, there are 100 million reasons why it will never happen. Having dealt with Oracle for over 20 years, I have seen their predatory relationship with their customers. They will hold onto this trademark in the hope that they can somehow monetize it.
At some point they will approach companies, likely tech companies that produce a product or offering that can't be described without using the word "JavaScript". They will offer a "convenient" licensing agreement of $50,000 per year for the use of their trademark.
They used this playbook with Java, an easier path because they had something more substantial than a trademark, but the approach will be the same. https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/165kzxg/oraclejav...
As Oracle's debt problems mount, the company seems increasingly likely to weaponize this trademark against companies—despite otherwise showing little interest in the word. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/us/w...
- I'd rather start a completely new, better language for the browser.
by homebrewer
4 subcomments
- Imagine if this effort was spent on solving more pressing problems, like the recent yet another security kerfuffle, or the overloaded maintainers whom everyone depends on but reliably fails to support.
Call the language JS, everyone already understands it, it's used on all the logos because it's short, we already another popular language with a very compact name (Go, which is harder to look up without mangling its name, and it's still doing fine).
- Does anyone think they actually sent them a letter? Which has the greatest likelihood of being read by capable eyes? The letter or the web page?
by moritzwarhier
0 subcomment
- Deno is very good at marketing: they also have a nice page about the history of JS.
But just like with this JS trademark thing, it feels like they present themselves as spokespeople and spearhead for the whole JS community, which feels kind of misleading and grandiose.
The mentioned timeline site (link below) also has this issue: it slowly shifts focus from things like the first JS version, the creation of XMLHttpRequest, to later focusing on Deno milestones, as if these events would have had comparable impacts:
https://deno.com/blog/history-of-javascript
And that seems kind of dishonest and designed to nudge outsiders towards thinking Deno would be the default server runtime now, which doesn't seem to be true.
by darepublic
0 subcomment
- the og lang should have been named coffeescript. Then the coffeescript in our universe could have been named javascript, until better tooling and improvements to the coffeescript spec became implemented by popular browsers.
- The Oracle Org Chart by Manu Cornet springs to mind reading this: https://www.globalnerdy.com/2011/07/03/org-charts-of-the-big...
by nrhrjrjrjtntbt
0 subcomment
- Lets all call it ECMAScript instead.
by 1vuio0pswjnm7
0 subcomment
- Actual title: "Oracle, It's time to free Javascript"
by theanonymousone
0 subcomment
- Just call it JS and make the trademark forgotten.
- Anyone reasonable would agree that Oracle does not even gain anything for their products by holding the trademark. They have zero benefit, except of course occasional bullying.
- This looks to me that Deno folks are out of business options and decided to create a distraction instead, of selling us why to use Deno instead of nodejs.
- Seems sensible to me, Oracle doesn't seem to use the trademark.
But also, what are the consequences of Oracle having the trademark, why is this an issue?
by throw_m239339
0 subcomment
- Official name is ECMAScript. Maybe it's time to drop "Javascript".
- Why in 2025 can we not ship a statically typed high performance language for browsers?
- $43k of $200k.
by singularity2001
0 subcomment
- It's time for browsers to just consume typescript
- Rename it as "Jotascript". (Jot-a-script).
Or just JotScript.
- javascripts a silly Name
by martini333
0 subcomment
- Here we go again
by huflungdung
0 subcomment
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by breakingrules3
0 subcomment
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by 123sereusername
0 subcomment
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by 123sereusername
0 subcomment
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by RexFactorem
0 subcomment
- [dead]
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by T3RMINATED
0 subcomment
- [dead]
- [flagged]
- Important to remember Oracle is one of the most evil tech companies, and Larry Ellison is your prototypical evil villain. Oracle CEO Catz recently said "We are not flexible regarding our mission, and our commitment to Israel is second to none" and "if they don't agree with our mission to support the State of Israel, then maybe we aren't the right company for them".
- I've said it before, I'll say it again. We should just stop using the term JavaScript. It's a bad choice of name and always has been.
It's caused way too much confusion over the years making people wrongly associate it with Java. My guess would be that associations exactly why Oracle doesn't want to give it up.
I would like to say go back to the original name of LiveScript from before Netscape tried to woo Sun, but the name LiveScript has been co-opted.
Something else with a J would probably be the least painful. JScript is permanently associated with Microsoft's terrible IE implementation. I offer up "JaScript" as it sounds largely like JavaScript but said with a drawl while retaining "JS".
Heck, I'll call it ECMAScript if that's what it takes. I'd rather not, but it's better than "JavaScript"
by ridethelightnin
0 subcomment
- This has so many unintended consequences for LLM over the next four years I would think.
"JavaScript" tokenizes to 2 tokens (BPE). "ECMAScript" tokenizes to 3. No biggie here.
But the real cost isn't training—it's inference. Every time an LLM has to reconcile "ES6" with "JavaScript," explain the naming, or reason through "user said JavaScript but docs say ECMAScript"— Hidden chain-of-thought overhead. Clarification tokens.
Back of envelope: ~376M JS-related LLM queries/day globally. ~30% trigger some clarification overhead. That's ~5B extra tokens/day, ~1.85T tokens/year.
At ~0.000025 kWh/token inference cost, that's ~46 GWh/year.
~23,000 tonnes CO2 annually.
~200,000 tonnes over 4 years, based on rough growth of LLM use, and terms sticking around on both names over 4 years - probably wrong here too.
Sources
Token counts: OpenAI tiktoken cl100k_base encoder
2.5B ChatGPT queries/day: Sam Altman, July 2025 [1]
~4.7B total LLM interactions/day: aggregated from ChatGPT + Gemini (2B monthly AI Overviews users) + Copilot + Claude + others [2][3]
JS = 62% of developers: Stack Overflow 2024 Survey [4]
8% of queries JS-related: my estimate based on language prevalence
30% clarification rate: my estimate - probably way off
Energy/token: ~0.000025 kWh blended from Luccioni et al. and Patterson et al. inference estimates [5]
CO2: 0.5 kg/kWh global grid average
[1] techcrunch.com/2025/07/21/chatgpt-users-send-2-5-billion-prompts-a-day
[2] demandsage.com/chatgpt-statistics
[3] sqmagazine.co.uk/chatgpt-vs-google-gemini-statistics
[4] survey.stackoverflow.co/2024
[5] arxiv.org/pdf/2211.02001 (BLOOM carbon footprint paper)
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