by class3shock
15 subcomments
- The F-150 is in one of the markets I think ev's will take over first (small commercial vehicles) but it just was not the right vehicle to start with. To expensive, even when the tax incentives were still a thing, and Ford suffers from having corrupt dealers taking a large cut on top of that. So you are selling to either the top 5% or bigger businesses.
If you are a top 5% buying this you want it to tow your expensive toy somewhere which ev's suck at currently or you want it to drive to "insert outdoorsy vacation destination", which means long distance in a remote area with few charging stations. So not a great sell.
If you are a bigger business I think this probably makes sense in some cases. You aren't dealing with the maintenance of an ICE, you can keep it "running" inside a building, it can provide on site power, probably has cost benefits in cities where the lack of emissions and noise is helpful. But the expensive really narrows down your customers. Many are also looking for range and towing, which doesn't help, and people that would show up for the ev part probably would be better off with a van.
If they had done a small e-transit, in the $30-35k range and sold it direct for actual msrp they would have had a much better chance at dealing with where we are now (high interest rate and low support for ev's).
by exabrial
22 subcomments
- I expected the "T word" to come out in the article, however this fails to address any of the practical reasons it isn't a good replacement for the value-engineered F-150:
* The price isn't right for small businesses. These trucks are quite expensive
* They're difficult to repair. A regular F-150 is designed to be repaired; these things are designed like iPhones to be disposable.
* Parts availability is scarce, contrasted with a regular F-150 (even junkyards are full of spare parts, that aren't software constrained)
* They're loaded with useless/barely-functional interior electronics that are poor copies of Tesla
* They're bloated with parts that don't need to exist (excessive exterior accent lighting, badges, over-complicated blinkers)
Oddly enough, single-charge range issues are pretty much non-existent (for non-towing applications).
- We don't want your electric car ... we want your car, but electric.
We want an electric F150 or an electric Suburban or v90 wagon or whatever.
But instead we get e-initiative i-mobiles. We get TRON-cars. We get iModels.
There is a reason for this:
The incumbent auto makers understand fully that the ICE version of whatever model they electrify will suffer enormously.
They believe that they can somehow retain all of the sales of the existing ICE model while adding growth sales of a different electric model.
And, of course, they are wrong: because nobody wants an "electric F150". They just want an F150. But electric.
- I am actually surprised they cancelled the F150 Lightning, I see a lot of them the Metro Vancouver area where a lot of contractors, (gardeners, pool maintenance, labourers, etc...) are driving them as electricity is super cheap here and gasoline is quite expensive.
- *Ford:* Makes giant, electric pickup truck that you can't purchase for less than $85,000 and your normal, weekend warrior has no need for to make their Home Depot runs.
*Also Ford:* WhERe aRe all tHe cUstOmerS?!
I don't understand what's so hard to understand about selling EVs like hotcakes. Make a reasonably sized vehicle, with a reasonable range, at a reasonable price point. They already have the Maverick. An excellent truck for day-to-day driving and weekend tasks. Make a Maverick, but put an electric motor in it instead of the gas-hybrid engine. Sell it for $10k more than the gas model (~$40k). That truck would sell gangbusters.
Instead they think they are Rivian and can sell trucks at Rivian prices, but they aren't Rivian. They aren't a sexy new EV startup who makes something truly new and bespoke. And who can, as a result, charge bespoke prices. They are Ford. They are a known entity. Dare I say, they are boring. Their strength is in volume, not bespokeness. They need to sell a boring truck with an electric motor at volume.
by 0xbadcafebee
2 subcomments
- This is fine, for three reasons:
1. Electric trucks don't make sense. In the "I drive my truck to pick up groceries" sense, it's fine. But as a work truck, it's not ideal. You lose both payload and towing capacity owing to that huge battery. Gets worse in winter and at elevation. The bigger the truck, the more it weighs, the worse the EV part does (which is why nobody's making an F350/F550 electric). ICE trucks get over twice the range, more payload, more towing. And if you're using it for work, you can't waste part of the day charging it, you need to gas up and go. It's taking most manufacturers a long time to develop more rugged/capable versions of EVs, so stalling to prepare for an eventual better launch kinda had to happen anyway.
2. In theory, plug-in hybrids could be converted to all-electric, but you get way more utility out of a hybrid. The ability to use either fuel source solves a lot of problems. I wonder if we'll eventually maneuver these away from gas towards LPG; they already sell LPG trucks, why not LPG plug-in hybrids?.
3. We simply aren't ready for mass adoption, practically speaking. Apartments are 40% of all homes and there's no way they can plug-in. There's not nearly enough public chargers and jockeying for position is a joke. The software for chargers and route management is still a huge mess. It will take more government investment, which is dead for the next three years. Selling more EVs with no simultaneous infrastructure investment would be a disaster waiting to happen.
- This is a shame. Coworker got a Lightning and he loves it. He doesn't tow with it but he does field work for fiber optic stuff, usually back home every day. Runs his computers, tools, ventilation for going down manholes, he even powered a sump pump from it, without needing to haul a generator.
The hybrid truck can now do the same, but it's a really nice truck
- From Ford...
Ford Follows Customers to Drive Profitable Growth; Reinvests in Trucks, Hybrids, Affordable EVs, Battery Storage; Takes EV-Related Charges
https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/us/en/articles/2025/ford-re...
>As part of this plan, Ford’s next-generation F-150 Lightning will shift to an extended-range electric vehicle (EREV) architecture and be assembled at the Rouge Electric Vehicle Center in Dearborn, Michigan. Production of the current generation F-150 Lightning has concluded as Ford redeploys employees to Dearborn Truck Plant to support a third crew for F-150 gas and hybrid truck production as a result of the Novelis fires.
>The F-150 Lightning is a groundbreaking product that demonstrated an electric pickup can still be a great F-Series,” said Doug Field, Ford’s chief EV, digital and design officer. “Our next-generation Lightning EREV is every bit as revolutionary. It keeps everything customers love — 100% electric power delivery, sub-5-second acceleration — and adds an estimated 700+ mile range and tows like a locomotive. It will be an incredibly versatile tool delivered in a capital-efficient way.
- I've been in the market for an electric truck for a solid 5 years now to replace my aging Nissan Frontier. There has yet to be anything attractive at all that has made it into production at any price I've been able to find. Everything seems to be a gas truck with some electric stuff shoehorned in not taking advantage of the new design opportunities at all, and generally with a little 4' bed instead of 6.5 or 8 that I need. So far the best design I've seen was from the startup Canoo [0, 1], but as is unsurprisingly typically the case with a car startup (a really high capex challenging area) they have since gone bankrupt. The Cybertruck at announcement looked sorta promising, with a decent sized bed (6.5 at the time), decent top range (500 miles), and cab moved forward for better visibility with no engine in the way. And in principle there are some really good fully offline "cyber" sorts of features that an ambitious company could do, like making liberal use of modern screens to enable "look through your hood" and better all around awareness, built-in FLIR for enhanced animal detection at night, etc. A self-parking feature that was really solid would be good too, zero general public road self-driving needed for that to be handy. But of course the Cybertruck ended up downgrading in every respect, having mediocre build quality, being heavily delayed, full of Tesla spyware and stupid shit, and in general being made by a vehicle & power company that oddly doesn't actually seem interested in vehicles or power anymore.
It's frustrating seeing all the potential and then having to wait and wait for somebody to finally execute. Same as with PDAs/smartphones until Apple finally shook things up or countless other examples throughout tech history. Maybe it'll be China who actually does it this time around, and a small silver lining might be that could also go along with some actual anti-feudalism and pro-privacy laws in the US if we're very lucky :\.
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0: https://www.greencars.com/expert-insights/all-electric-all-a...
1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzjqfQdj3sM
by LUmBULtERA
5 subcomments
- I wish if this U.S. administration and U.S. carmakers don't care to promote EVs, that they'd at least let in the Chinese manufacturers that are interested in them.
by molsongolden
2 subcomments
- Pretty surprised here and I think it was really just bad marketing or I guess unsustainable unit economics.
Price out the cheapest F-150 (XL) with a supercrew cab and 4x4 and you are looking at $50k. Trucks are just expensive. The Lightning is expensive but not that much more than any other truck and the Ford incentives + EV credit brought it down quite a bit. The Lightning Flash (extended range) was routinely selling OTD < $60k with 0% financing.
I'd put off buying a pickup for a decade because I couldn't find the right one and the Lightning is awesome. I was skeptical at first due to range concerns but there are chargers in the middle of nowhere in 2025.
I think a lot of the other commenters might change their thoughts if they drove one for a bit.
Edit: I get somewhere around 50mpg (dollar equivalent when charging at home) in a full-size truck that fits my whole family and our gear + handles better in the snow than any ICE truck + can do plenty of hauling and light towing.
- The comments in this thread are far more interesting than the article. It really shows why selling EV's in America is difficult, especially in the pickup segment I think. The amount of arguments that are clearly just justifying an opinion held without ever actually considering an alternative is unusual for this forum.
It appears America is not ready for electrical pickups. Maybe other markets will be more eager for them?
- I think that trucks are in worst position for moving to EV.
Customer base is quite conservative in how the truck should look like. For example,F150 lightning had to look like F150.
While a look of truck (and even ordinary car) is defined by the function - need to have beefy, but somewhat serviceable/accessible engine in the front. There is no need for this in the ev truck like at all. It's all dead space now.
I suspect that proper EV trucks eventually will look like current box-over-engine trucks (similar to kei trucks). Like Super crew truck with standard bed will probably have the same dimensions as current short bed truck, with better turn radius. But it won't look cool, and probably have the same stigma as minivans.
- https://archive.ph/k2S9O for those who have read their last free article.
Interesting that Rivian seems to be doing fine in this space.
- No one in top comments is mentioning a key point. It was cheap looking.
How the truck looks is important. Outside the bottom end of market, it's a status symbol. I got a tundra TRD earlier this year and I've gotten multiple compliments on it because it's a good looking truck.
The F150 lightning looked cheap. The grill is this crappy plastic. And there was no upgrade feature to make it cooler.
If they had the option to make it look like the Raptor or one of their higher end F150s, it may have sold better.
by dyauspitr
2 subcomments
- That’s too bad, I love my lightning. I spend about $20/month on home charging, love the acceleration and it’s good enough to haul all the things I need for my small farm.
Also, it’s great for long distance recreational drives (from a very specific perspective)- I like driving 250-300 miles in a day and then parking at an RV spot for the night instead of a hotel room. I can run the heat and AC all night as well as have a “full tank” ready to go.
by strawhatguy
3 subcomments
- Article says the next F-150 Lightning will be an EREV-style plugin hybrid. Which, if so, makes a lot of sense. EVs are great, but not so much for trucks.
I was always bothered about how cars were either supposed to be all electric or all ICE. Working together is the smart way forward.
- How much of the aluminum supplier issue played into this?
>As Ford Authority recently reported, an aluminum plant in New York, owned and operated by Ford supplier Novelis, recently suffered its third fire since September, making many wonder if the facility was still on track to reach full-scale production by December. Turns out, that is indeed the case, but in the meantime, there's no denying that Ford F-150 production has been impacted - which is also true of several other Blue Oval models.
- The Maverick used to be the truck but they've jacked it by like almost twice the price since debut. With so much "upmarket momentum" the e-F150's days were numbered.
Now I'm sitting here wondering when we'll get another small Ford truck again. This same exact story played out with the Ranger and the decades without a smaller option sucked then too.
by hshdhdhj4444
3 subcomments
- Let’s assume that this is the correct decision in terms of the viability of the electric F-150 (I have no reason to believe Ford is wrong here).
The real problem with this decision is that the F-150 is pretty much Ford’s only foray into EVs.
It raises the question of how Ford expects to compete in the EV market, which is a bigger concern given that the world market is showing a clear preference for EVs, especially once they allow the world EV leaders from China to enter their markets.
This further reinforces the Galapagosification of the American auto makers who are getting wiped out pretty much everywhere outside the US where they are competitive thanks to government protectionism.
by AtlasBarfed
2 subcomments
- We simply need an engineering generation of 50 mile range PHEV vehicles. It will get a huge percentage of low-efficiency driving electrified, won't be too big of a burden on the grid, educate more people on EV-style driving, adds regen braking, should still be able to provide high-torque towing and driving.
by pytonslange
0 subcomment
- Great news! We just started seeing theese dangerous huge ass US trucks on the streets in Norway the last year or so. The non-electric versions were priced out of market due to the emissions they put out.
by charlesabarnes
2 subcomments
- Wow, I was under the impression that these were selling incredibly well.
I started to appreciate Ford's strategy recently after they lost my faith after they killed off sedans in the US. I'm now confused again by the company's strategy
by jillesvangurp
1 subcomments
- Lots of speculation in this thread. Not a lot of talk about the international market where Ford has been mostly a no-show with the F-150 lightning. Internationally, Toyota and BYD are starting to dominate the electric truck market. The electric Hilux is launching next year and the BYD Shark is doing well in e.g. Australia and Mexico. That's a range extended vehicle similar to the new F-150 sold at an aggressive price point. There are a few other Chinese vendors getting ready to market their vehicles as well. It's a popular car type across South America, Africa, Australia, etc. And Toyota used to dominate that market. The market clearly exists and it's rapidly electrifying.
Internationally the trend is actually towards battery electric vehicles that are more affordable than their ICE or hybrid equivalents. If such non electric models are available at all. That's becoming true for a growing number of cars in especially the EU, Australian, or Asian markets. The cheapest cars in the EU are electric at this point. There's a growing number of cars priced well below 20K Euro. And not just from China. 2025 saw a few models for which that was true. 2026 will feature a lot more.
How is this possible? Batteries are now cheap. Electric motors were never that expensive. And the rest of the car is what it always was a bunch of wheels, window wipers, and other components. The cheapest car is the simplest car. That's going to be an electric one from 2026 onward.
Why did the F-150 electric flop? It was more expensive than the petrol variant. You have to pay a very steep premium for them. Ford never really figured out how to source cheap batteries. And even at that steep premium they never figured out profitability. It seems they are getting out of battery joint ventures even and reducing investment. They are giving up and ceding the market to others. Just as others are figuring this market out and are proving it is real.
Technically, if they ever wanted to make a cheaper version of this new range extended truck, all they'd have to do is junk the range extender and cram the vehicle full of cheap LFP batteries. As much as they can get away with. But that would require that they figure out how to source/make cheap batteries. Clearly that's not a problem that is solved in the US yet. They might get back to this topic in a few years.
- Ford and GM made massive investments in tooling for EV manufacturing and just started production. CEO Farley then meets with the current administration and suddenly Ford is pulling the brakes on those factories, laying off thousands and taking $20B in accounting write-down. Imagine doing that. What pressure was must have been exerted on Farley.
- >Ford expects to record about $19.5 billion in special items with the majority in the fourth quarter.
It is believed that this is the largest impairment ever from a company.
by TrevorFSmith
0 subcomment
- It's a shame they didn't ship an EV that fit the uses the F-150 serves. The Lightening is a luxury item. The F-150 is a tool, regardless of whether it's ICE or EV.
I hope this puts more people in the market for the Slate truck. It won't serve everyone with an ICE F-150 but I suspect a bunch of farm and ranch vehicles that don't do many highway miles could be Slates.
by 1970-01-01
4 subcomments
- But they didn't kill it? Everyone is missing the other side of the coin. It will still exist as a battery electric vehicle with the addition of a generator. You can still plug it in and drive just on battery pack power from the grid.
- I still think that if they'd released an electric Ford Maverick sized pickup instead of the monstrosity that is the Lightning, they would have done much better, but everyone had to run after the story Elon was spinning with the Cybertruck, and unsurprisingly, they are similarly unsuccessful.
- I would imagine for 80% of truck owners, having an electric truck is fine. However, if you are towing or carrying heavy loads, they are a bad choice. I suspect most F-150 drivers barely ever do these sorts of things. I have an F-150 but do use it to tow my travel trailer on vacation.
by happyopossum
1 subcomments
- So they’re not killing the lightning, they’re adding a range extender? I guess that’s not gonna get as many clicks, but it hardly seems controversial given market reception of the current lighting (basically everyone who wanted one bought one and then sales tanked).
by partiallypro
0 subcomment
- I think an electric full sized truck was always a mistake. To me the market is in the Tacoma/Ranger size for an EV truck. It's pretty simple. Those don't need to haul anything, they are smaller, more aerodynamic, can look sportier because they are more compact, etc. The Tacoma even today gets like 20mpg, which is absolutely abysmal for a 4-cylinder, it's so ripe for an electric motor. The obvious obstacle to overcome is longevity, given Tacomas especially are known to last practically forever.
by MPSFounder
1 subcomments
- Not a good thing. I think Ford has quality issues, but EVs with 500 miles of range are viable. Most pickup owners do not tow. This was an American foot in a market that the Japanese own
by laweijfmvo
0 subcomment
- I’ll never buy a Ford after dealing with a dealership during the pandemic pricing (sold my pre-order to the highest bidder).
by diogenescynic
1 subcomments
- They botched it entirely. If they made it for $40k even if it only got 50 miles of range, they could have sold these. Instead they priced themselves out of the market. It's a clear example of the Innovator's dilemma, but now instead of cannibalizing their own market they'll just let it slip away to Tesla.
- I've never understood electric pickup trucks. If those fugly wheel covers make a significant difference to your range on a highly aerodynamic sedan how does a pickup truck make any sense?
- These kind of vehicles, electric or not, should be killed or taxed heavily simply because they are the epitome of hostile individualism. They're designed to be a fist on wheels and it's known that they run people over.
- Maybe it is just me, but the “universal” platform architecture seems a bit inefficient. I think, with a software-first mindset and modularity in Hardware products, it is insane to think efficiency first, especially when the goal is to make it cheaper to produce and operate.
by etempleton
0 subcomment
- I remembering thinking it was a curious choice. The demo for consumer F150s often doesn’t even like electric vehicles. On the commercial side the electric version is obviously limited.
by jermaustin1
2 subcomments
- That is a disappointment. I was hoping that they would be introducing a new smaller EV truck in either the Maverick or Ranger line. I have no need for a large truck when something half the size handles all the hauling/towing I need.
- Plug-in Hybrid with a small engine for charging purposes probably makes the most sense at the moment, although full electric is sexy, the range anxiety is real.
by LeoPanthera
0 subcomment
- I have not once followed a link to Wired without it saying "You’ve read your last free article."
Is the limit supposed to be zero?
- Hicks with overpriced trucks don't want EVs, shocker!
They are a status symbol for middle class workers with no taste
- Weird way for Ford to announce they're going out of business.
by gorgoiler
1 subcomments
- I bought some LiFePo power packs this summer. They are just 1kWh things, the size and mass of a crate of beer but having a power pack with mains voltage output is mind bending. Suddenly you can do all sorts of things you never could do before. It feels as bizarre as it might feel going camping with a magic tap that has permanent running water, or to have a bag of rice that never empties. I set up a tent with a household table lamps. It felt both weird and exciting.
The electric F-150 promised to be 100x and it was very appealing. It would have been a vehicle that was also a mobile untethered power station, and much more capable one than my power pack or even a mains outlet. Presumably with the right connections you could drain the battery at the same rate as the wheel motors. What could you do with a mobile 100+kW electricity supply? Brushless (corded) chainsaw, mobile log splitter, and charge my phone!
It’s a world I’m looking forward to. More utility EVs please.
by arunkumars91
0 subcomment
- That seems to be the right direction in my opinion.
- Not surprising. For what it cost you could get a Model Y and a gently used gas truck. Running your house off it in a power outage was a super cool idea, but man that price.
by homeonthemtn
0 subcomment
- These trucks were a boondoggle to begin with
- I've said this before: if you go to Beijing or any developed city in China, you'll be amazed by their progress on EV's. It's on a scale beyond America, that America is no longer capable of achieving.
Time will tell of their sustainability.
by burnt-resistor
0 subcomment
- Detroit will continue creating crappy EVs rather than good one to defend their "whale oil" business by gaslighting people into believing "EVs suck" when they're strategically sabotaging products in this category. Been happening since the EV-1 and the horrific styling of the original Prius. They don't like change and don't care about the long term survival of the species if there's no profit in it.
by analog8374
0 subcomment
- F150 turned to poo after the 90s. Nonsignificant news. Look elsewhere for your electric truck.
- $20b capital write down means that consumers paid that much more for all vehicles to subsidize redundant and insolvent EV product lines .
Tesla is the only company making money off of these products .
People keep complaining about the AI bubble but we sustained an EV bubble for 15 years without it popping .
- they were impossible to buy
by moneycantbuy
0 subcomment
- Electricity seems as expensive as gasoline in California, especially considering the cost of installing a charger. Also relying on fascist elon's network is a no go.
- The EV pickup obsession is so bizarre. Even moreso than the gas pickup obsession. The obvious next step was to take their brilliant EV Transit and scale up production. You don’t have to convince truck bros. There’s no cultural hang-ups. No issues with towing. Just make a nice cargo van with 120v hookups for $50k that’s easy to drive in the city and easy to convert into a camper. Could’ve built three vans with the lithium it took to build these obscenities.
And you know, I’m already compromising here, because it really ought to be a wagon instead of a van, if Detroit had any brains left.
Can’t wait until someone figures out how to smuggle those $15k BYDs in from Mexico. The North American car market needs to be disrupted badly. By China, not by some meme stock.
- [flagged]
by theLegionWithin
0 subcomment
- good, it was a bad idea anyways. want an ev? just get a Tesla