- Yes, turbine blades can introduce radar clutter and affect certain military systems; but this has been know since the 1990s and has been engineered around for decades.
China, the UK, Germany, and Denmark operate gigawatts of offshore wind in close proximity to military-grade and NATO air-defense radar without much issue...
by softwaredoug
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- The real takeaway is when a big project can be paused entirely due to one presidents very specific / frivolous whims - we won’t be able to do big projects in the current order. We need a shift in the constitutional order where the whims of one person isnt fused with the bureaucracy
- Years ago, this very subject was an interview question at a national lab (at an undergrad level). The question was roughly:
> the ends of windmill blades look a lot like a jet on radar. If you were assigned to this project, what would your approach be to avoiding false positives?
This was in 2011/2012. I find it difficult to believe the problem is not solved.
by kylehotchkiss
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- Meanwhile, we're in a multi-year shortage of turbines for thermal electrical plants. Electric bill beatings will continue until morale improves.
- Local news (Australia) is reporting this as extra pressure on Denmark relating to the rhetoric around Greenland
https://aapnews.aap.com.au/a/XVWrainrX
by tony_cannistra
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- I looked into this a little because I was curious. I guess the ostensible "national security" rationale (which clearly is not the only reason!) for this is that turbines severely degrade the utility of radar surveillance along the coastlines.
This is particularly relevant for low-altitude incursions and drones.
Now, other large governments (UK) have resolved this in several ways, including the deployment of additional radars on and within the turbine farms themselves.
So clearly this is politically motivated, and they're using what seems to be a real but solveable concern as a scapegoat.
by arghandugh
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- This is because King Pedophile wants to destabilize the American power grid in order to enrich his donors.
It was an explicit campaign promise that the tech industry completely endorsed and he is fulfilling it.
by LgWoodenBadger
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- It's to reapply pressure on Denmark with respect to Greenland.
by dlt713705
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- Next step is invade Venezuela and pump as much oil as possible
- I've been wondering all year about what happens when an executive-branch office issues orders that it is not legally qualified to issue; by and large everybody has just... followed them. This may be another example (I don't know quite enough of the legal specifics in this case, though there are certainly others that are more slam-dunk-y in this respect).
What are the enforcement mechanisms here if the states in question---MA, RI, CT, NY, NJ, and VA---just said "no go ahead, keep building"? What happens to the companies if they just keep building? I'm not saying they should but at this point rule-of-law has fallen apart so badly that I literally don't know what happens when the government invents a new rule and people just... disregard it. (Particularly if state-level enforcement decides not to play along.) Do they bring in the FBI? Military?
by DoctorOetker
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- Is there a similar ostensible classified reason why OCO-2 and OCO-3 are requested to shut down operations? 700+ M invested in space based observatories with ~ 15M yearly operating cost. Just doesn't make sense to disable perfectly working observatories to save less than ~75M in a timespan of 5 years while losing a 700+M investment.
- The US doesn't want to piss off all the USO's zipping around underwater.
- i have the feeling the real reason is "drill baby drill". The actual administration does not hide it's love for carbon based energy
by lateforwork
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- The Saudis have enormous influence over Trump through business deals. So does Qatar through the jet they gifted Trump, and the UAE through crypto deals.
These oil rich countries are no fans of clean energy.
Is it merely coincidence, then, that Trump is canceling wind and solar projects in the United States?
Previously Trump also canceled the largest solar project in the United States. Known as Esmeralda 7, the project planned in the Nevada desert would have produced enough energy to power nearly two million homes.
by CommenterPerson
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- The $445 million campaign contribution / bribe from Big Oil is clearly paying off.
- Of course they'll classify the actual reason - government corruption.
- Trump Media merging with a fusion energy firm.
by josefritzishere
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- Pure idiocracy.
- US bribery system eh I mean fossil fuel lobby strikes again
- haha, amateurs. California is way ahead of the game here. We've been blocking our own offshore wind fields for years, using our own environmental regulations, and we're going to keep doing it for the foreseeable future.
- If fent is a WMD then so are turbines!
- TBH the fact renewables haven't or can't cut big cheques to change Trumps mind is a little baffling. Surely he can double dip from big oil and small renewable.
by linuxhansl
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- What the... It seems we crossed into the realm of intentionally doing damage.
I'm reminded of threatening tariffs to successfully derail global carbon levy on ship emissions.
Meanwhile China runs away with all the clean energy tech (solar, wind, batteries, etc, etc.) while we hold to fossil fuels to save less than 200,000 jobs.
by therobots927
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- All the more reason for me to invest in a personal windmill.
by mullingitover
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- This is a road to serfdom (and/or a road to 1789 France) situation with what's happening to energy prices in the past couple years[1].
The price of new solar+battery and wind should be pushing fossil fuel energy prices off a cliff right now, unless you live in a petrostate.
[1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU000072610
- Putin's orders?
- can we setup a polymarket for the number of days until trump blames offshore windmills for hurricanes
- Trump doesn't like windfarms since they built some off the coast of his Scottish golf club.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_International_Golf_Club_...
- It's interesting that people are very incredulous of there being a legitimate defense reason for this when we have had unilateral unanswered drone incursions all over Europe and the US.
There's obviously some sort of arms race occurring and some of it is public.
The world in on the precipice of many technologies advancing at an all too rapid pace. The idea that technology will become tightly regulated isn't inconceivable.
FYI Sweden did the same thing last year. There is likely a (drone) reason, it's all but completely clear.
by BenFranklin100
1 subcomments
- This is dumb. We are in the midst of an energy shortage that will only get worse.
Between MAGA blocking wind and Progressives blocking nuclear, the US is left with solar and carbon.
Solar is fine, but it needs a 24/7 base. Unfortunately it increasingly appears that base will remain carbon.
- drones are invisible to radar.......or clearly russia(or ukrain) would not be dealing with strikes far from the front lines
also, hypersonic missles are now a thing, and the hit faster than any radar or interceptor can register
but yes if you were worried about Portugal trying a sneak attack, then clearly they would use the wind turbine shielding attack vector from weaponised shipping cans placed on container ships
by mring33621
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- The Water Folk put the kibosh on that shit.
by ChrisArchitect
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- Earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46355227
by nixosbestos
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- Can we summon the Trumphole licking HN users that spent their reputation insisting that us "libtards" were freaking out, and get them in here to explain how this fits in the MAGA 4D Chess?
Or is it against HN decorum to point out just how much of that shit-headery fart-huffing was allowed and transpired here, on HN?
- Oh no! look Trump is doing exactly what he promised and everyone is shocked, again
https://www.project2025.observer/en?agencies=Dept.+of+Energy
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by nextworddev
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- Prefer solar over wind
by politician
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- Global human populations are in decline; fossil fuel use will decline along with us.
If humans no longer use as much carbon (because they no longer exist in large numbers), doesn’t that alone adequately address the climate change concerns? Does it really make sense to overhaul the global energy generation infrastructure given these conditions?
- To be fair, there could absolutely be national security issues. One example might be undersea (or even surface) navigation. If the coastline is littered with windmills off shore, this might create a negative of submarine navigation routes. That's clearly information we don't want shared with adversaries. There might be undersea classified cables. There might be classified sonar stations. It might be hard to detect adversary subs within a windmill field due to extra noise, etc.
- This happens all the time in my country. The navy has all kinds of gear deployed in the sea that could be interfered with.
Edit: Looks like they were a bit late to veto it here though.
- Occam's Razor: offshore wind requires a lot of rare earths for their magnets and whatnot. US military-industrial complex needs the little remaining global supply not under China's export controls.
by ineedaj0b
2 subcomments
- We don’t need offshore wind or onshore. Wish the US focused more on Solar. Seems to be the smartest path forward.
China understands and is gunning for Nuclear and Solar. Geothermal and wind are nice but too location dependent.
- I actually believe the radar surveillance excuse (on a technicalities only), if that's what this is going to come down to. The ocean is a big empty place and prime for picking up radar reflections as the background is pretty quiet.
However... how on earth was this not identified like 10 years ago way before these projects were even started? Seems pretty obvious in hindsight.
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