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The Myth of the ThinkPad

53 points by volemo

by arjie

12 subcomments

For reasons unknown online technology forums have always had some kind of "underdog" that they cheer for. When the iPhone came out it was Nokia (which had a capacitive touch screen that Apple were just copying), with the Macbook it was the Thinkpad (Apple weren't making devices for real engineers because they didn't have the mousenubbin thing), Nvidia's Linux drivers were garbage (AMD is so much better because it's open source). Some kind of tech hipsterism drives this. But a lot of these proponents were just suffering under inferior tech. I know because I made the mistake of trusting them far too often and then switching to the mainstream thing and finding out that it was really freaking good.
The iPhone is pretty awesome, my Nvidia cards work way better under proprietary drivers on Linux than my AMD cards worked under either OSS or proprietary drivers, and the Macbooks are fantastic hardware. I got scammed by these tech hipsters.

by ch_123

1 subcomments

After reading this article, it is unclear to me what "The Myth of the Thinkpad" is. The author laid out a series of desirable attributes about Thinkpads, and proceeds to explain how they are all true. We are reminded that all these desirable qualities arise from business realities, which is generally true for any desirable attribute in a commercially successful product. In the end, there's a conclusion that Thinkpads are a good choice, but that they are not "magic", as if this was something that needed explanation.

by jnaina

0 subcomment

A company I previously worked for was the authorized Dell break-fix partner/sub-contractor for the APJ region many years ago. Under this model, any Dell repairs covered by a Dell Support contract, either corporate or individual, would trigger the dispatch of our engineers to perform on-site repairs with the required parts, following initial diagnosis by Dell Level 1 support.
Despite the contract being rebid annually through an online auction process, the business remained phenomenally profitable. This was largely driven by the high failure rates of Dell hardware at the time, particularly laptops, and the fact that we were paid per break-fix incident, regardless of the underlying issue or long-term resolution.
Lenovo, however, studied this model, learned from Dell's mistakes (Lenovo hired away lots of Dell service managementfolks) and took a different approach. Rather than monetising failure, they focused on eliminating the root cause of high support costs by designing laptops with superior build quality, durability, and repairability.
At least in my view, Lenovo represents Dell 2.0, the model Dell should have evolved into, but didn’t.

by jscyc

0 subcomment

As a 20-something the writer wouldn't have even been a teenager yet when what was regarded as the golden era of second-hand ThinkPads was in swing.
>It’s rare for those teams of people to survive buyouts by foreign companies with their agency and independence intact.
ThinkPad enthusiasts were very vocal about how the Lenovo takeover impaired their later designs (200 and onwards).
I've always found it amusing to see the modern wave of people hyping ThinkPads as recent as the t480; which I've known greybeards to consider having no more in common with a "true" ThinkPad than name and colour scheme.

by kianN

2 subcomments

When I was in high school, I got hit head on by a car while walking. It wasn’t going fast but I got thrown 1-2 feet in the air and landed hard on my backpack.
Both my Thinkpad and I (thanks to my Thinkpad) were totally fine, and I continued to use it for 4 more years.

by keyle

1 subcomments

The reasons I buy second hand thinkpads, is because I have expectations about the keyboard, and they're usually met.
I have expectations about the screen not being silly DPI and 'reasonable', and that's usually met too.
Bluetooth etc. works just fine.
Finally I have expectations on the fans not being like a total joke on most windows laptops... and that's usually fine too.
For the rest I want compatibility; lack of 'FML quirks'.
If only they could fix the absolute turd of audio quality in thinkpads, I think we'd be on par with Apple from my perspective. Although I've loved ARM processors lately and would always prefer a portable ARM machine than Intel.
Choosing thinkpads is really mostly about choosing the boring option, with the least amount of surprises, the dad option of laptops in a sea of disappointments.

by juggerl3

3 subcomments

One of the last to fall to the 'clickpad' trend. Soon nobody will remember a time of serviceable laptop touchpads with physical buttons where you could precisely and efficiently accomplish real work; a time before the ubiquitous featureless expanse of a clickpad where erratic drivers reduce your interface to vague suggestions to the OS. What's the point of laptops if we have to plug in an external mouse anyway?

by autoexec

1 subcomments

Old IBM ThinkPads were actually nice laptops that held up to a lot of abuse. I can't touch anything made by Lenovo though. They've been caught more than once installing backdoors and malware (sometimes because they were paid to do it).
They've had many security issues since then, including another backdoor in 2025, but Superfish was probably their worst disaster because after it became public that every machine they sold with it was vulnerable Lenovo continued to deny it until they were finally forced to admit it and release a removal tool. That should have been the end of it, but the removal tool just uninstalled the bloatware itself while leaving the system changes it had made which introduced the vulnerability. That just gave the customers who were even aware of what was going on and downloaded the removal tool a false sense of security. Only after the media started reporting that failure did they eventually release a second removal tool that actually corrected the problem Superfish introduced. No way would I ever trust that company

by pigeons

3 subcomments

The trackpoint alone makes a thinkpad so comfortable to accurately and quickly get a lot done on for mouse workflows when no external mouse is attached, that nothing else comes close.

by devilbunny

0 subcomment

The repairability and durability arguments should apply to HP and Dell business laptops as well, but they largely don't.
If I were getting a new laptop, I'd probably buy a Mac. But if I needed a Windows laptop, I'd buy a Thinkpad (one is currently my only Windows PC). It's not really upgradeable or modular (fixed RAM, SSD and battery not easy to change), but it is well-built and still pretty snappy despite being 6-7 years old.

by nxtbl

0 subcomment

I'll take a good trackpoint + three buttons below space bar over any and all trackpads. Can't stand using them. Of course I also have separate thinkpad trackpoint II keyboard and a good mouse to use when on a stationary desktop - they're easy to carry along, too.

by al_borland

1 subcomments

My first laptop was an IBM Thinkpad, Later I had some at work. But after they sold to Lenovo, and the Superfish and Lenovo Service Engine issues were discovered, I wrote them off. Thinkpads may be the best non-Apple laptops, but I simply don’t trust Lenovo and likely never will.

by ofalkaed

1 subcomments

Having three physical trackpad buttons and the trackpoint are enough to keep me on thinkpads.

by daft_pink

1 subcomments

As a previous Thinkpad user who moved onto Mac. I think you’re missing the appeal of the Track point and how well they were made to run something like Linux. They had better driver support and were more likely to use intel chip sets then the propriety crap that HP or Dell would sell you. Framework and the Dell XPS line eventually caught up and Linux driver support improved, but this was a huge benefit to owning a think pad.

by willtemperley

1 subcomments

Thinkpads get eight or nine for repairabliity from ifixit while Macbooks get a four or five, basically because of storage replacability [1]. The pentalobe screw issue is moot for anyone with a spare $5.
Apple could easily fix this. Macs are generally good value except for the absolute rip-off that is storage. $400 to go from 1TB to 2TB is a ridiculous markup.
[1] https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/laptop-repairability-sc...

by EbNar

1 subcomments

I'm at my second E-series ThinkPad right now. My "old" one, from 2018, is still rocking and my son is happily using it.
Reason for the E-series: cheaper than T, good keyboards, easily serviceable/expandable and the feeling that it's build quality is a bit better than that of other laptops of similar price. Overall, very happy with them.

by wodenokoto

1 subcomments

Companies that hand out Apple laptops don’t have a hardware service contract?
Dell laptops must have one available.
The main argument is that thinkpads are high quality because it makes the service contract cheaper for Lenovo to fulfill.
But other non-repairable/poor quality brands thrives in the same market segment.

by emersonrsantos

0 subcomment

I have a 2020 Lenovo Legion and boy, those things last. I can easily open it to clean it (did it last month), add/remove memory or storage without specialized tools or software. All that I need is built into the bios (like disable battery for service, disable hybrid Intel Graphics/Nvidia to use just the GPU, disable secure boot), and the bios is still getting updates. I understand the price tag, especially for enterprise because every big manufacturer does this.

by Gazoche

0 subcomment

One thing I love about my Thinkpad is the dedicated middle-click button above the trackpad. Such a simple feature, but so much more reliable and convenient than two-fingers tap, three-fingers tap, corner tap, double button press, or whatever ritual you have to perform on other laptops to do a middle-click.

by serf

0 subcomment

it has a clit mouse and I can take most units apart in 30 minutes.
that's the entire reason.
no need to get into supply chains and culture and hoodoo.

by pjmlp

0 subcomment

The myth has been reality for me since 2005.
The only time I had something bad was one model that it has issues when powering, which I never tracked down if the root cause was the hardware itself or a driver issue.
The only other brand I have been as lucky were Asus multimedia laptops, and netbooks.

by raybb

1 subcomments

I've been thinking of creating a website to make it much easier to search for used thinkpads and sort by various specs. There used to be a similar website like it for servers that's long shut down.

by serf

1 subcomments

>Thinkpads are “Cheap” because nobody who worships the things buys one new.
most wrong statement ever.
in fact with the entire 30th anniversary lineup was made to sell new units to fans, no one else cared.

by jfvinueza

0 subcomment

Typing this on a X1 gen 6 on my home; paid $230 for it a couple months ago. My impression is that it's a modern, perfectly adequate notebook, if a bit unexciting. But maybe that's because I'm an spoiled child, because I haven't thought for _one second_ how is it that they've made a multicore processor, several gigabytes of random access memory, a fairly decent well-lit keyboard and such a nice matte screen fit into this light, rather elegant device. I mean, for a laptop. I understand Lenovo, those greedy bastards, are the ones who assembled it in interest of achieving their own quarter projections, but now that I think of it, I'm sure there _several_ soulless corporations involved on it running the way it does! Intel is inside, that's for certain, but just ponder about the conditions, and for what financial purpose was tht wireless chip manufactured? What about that screen, huh! How was the lithium in the battery mined? Where? By whom? They weren't doing it _for me_, that I can acknowledge, and yet here I am. Typing on it. Hot garbage. Actually kind of liking it? Is it because I feel more at home here, in Void Linux, than on the Mac OS, even if it's so absolutely unnatural for mammal to "feel" such things in regard to, uh, process supervision and package management? Look, I'm not going to go full-on zen and start rambling about "you" being no more than a mundane abstract construct, but insofar as we agree on our individuation I can very much assure you that this Thinkpad, right now, exists for my benefit, and even though I have set boundaries on myself on developing a sentimental relationship with it (which kinda happened with an X220, I was younger then), even though its assamblage has required thousands years of avarice, violence and rapaciousness (as well of bits of love and care, for how they were all these person fed?) as an end product, for two hundred bucks, it is pretty fucking miraculous, and I myself am especially grateful for all those saccharine videos narrow-mindedly expressing their praises for it.

by harendra007

0 subcomment

Best laptop I ever owned was T60, I wish someone made exactly same model with modern cpu.

by zingar

0 subcomment

Great read. There is something special here that the author isn’t commenting on: the fact that cold hard business logic was allowed to lead to a sustainably (money-wise) better product without interference for decades is unusual.
Too often cold hard business logic is subverted by psychopathic short term executive thinking that says “we’re spending money on something good for the customer? I don’t care that it’s also good for us but I like the idea of a quarterly earnings report that doesn’t include that expense!”
The executive then takes their bonus and gets headhunted by the next F500 company where they apply the same strategy.

by below43

0 subcomment

This is ridiculous. High end second hand Thinkpads are much better and robust in my experience than new Lenovo laptops. Much better build quality.

by __patchbit__

0 subcomment

The golden era modular ThinkPad had quality of life lived experience design https://youtu.be/FuybvW81QoM

by maxglute

0 subcomment

Retarded reasoning. Of course companies care about their bottom line foremost, but if their business model for business segment incidentally aligns with providing consumers solid, repairable, or cheap 2nd hand, products then that's worth validating. I haven't owned a laptop for 5 years, but all my previous laptops were new thinkpads (Ts/Ws) and it was always relatively easy to find a sale, stack with some sort of education/work discount, get a pretty solid warranty for very competitive prices.

by Ericson2314

1 subcomments

Framework should get in that same business.
I mean, my company buys them, I know at least one other that does too. Both are too technical I think to bother with a hardware support contract. But others might!

by protocolture

0 subcomment

This is weird and I cant believe it was written in the year of our lord two thousand twenty six.
>Lenovo does not care about you. >IBM did not care about you.
No shit.
>that IBM and Lenovo are the most kind, gracious corporations in the universe
I have never encountered this line of thought in the thinkpad enthusiast space. People like the design, not the company.
>when most of the laptops they worship were made less than ten years ago
The gold high standard in the Thinkpad enthusiast community was still the T60 last I checked. Released like 2006. I have a T61p at home for my own amusement. And you can still get bootleg parts like batteries.
>Simply put, because they have not thought for one second about a Thinkpad in any other context than their home, let alone about the general functioning of computers in a business setting…
No of course not. Because they like the design. If I could get myself a Cray 1 I would. I dont care about the business context.
>old laptops are disposed of, and treated basically as garbage.
No, what happens is that the finance/leasing company contracts someone to assess the current state of the hardware. Anything that's missing or severely damaged is billable to the lessor. Then what was turned over to the recyclers is sold on with a cut going back to the finance firm.
Some basic research here would have actually strengthened your core premise, because they get a small tasty bite of the secondary market.
>Thinkpads are Repairable because every minute of a field technician’s labor costs money for IBM/Lenovo, and cuts into the profit made on a service contract
Yes exactly. But this isnt the only business model available. Some businesses make laptops that are less repairable, or dont last as long. Nobody thinks the company wants to marry them. But in a marketplace you choose the product that closely aligns with your parameters. It doesnt matter why the company used those parameters.
>Notice, that nowhere in this explanation did I say “used to”, “once were” or “back then”. Because this cycle is continuous.
Oh no, you are telling me that they are continuing to make repairable laptops? Thats terrible. How will the thinkpad community ever recover.
>These are not magical virtues of a bygone age. These things aren’t even really “virtuous” at least in terms of motivation. Lenovo doesn’t care about “Right to Repair” any more than Apple, they just sell to a different market, and make their money in a different way.
I honestly see people clamoring for computers from specifically before Intel Management Engine\TPM\Secure Boot more than a vague mysterious bygone age.
>They’re typical companies, who just happen to have some good designers and engineers.
No shit. But this is true about every piece of hardware that has a fandom. Its no different in a Porsche group. Or people going on about old Cisco switches. Theres nothing new here. I dont think that JVC wanted to make beautiful love to me because I enjoy the design of the Videosphere.
>But Thinkpads didn’t materialize out of the virtuous ether
And no one claims they did.
>But don’t treat these things like they’re magic
No one does.

by hahahahhaah

0 subcomment

This is why I like to think of true laptop price:
* Laptop price
* Extended waranty and support with onsite fix 3 year
* Accidental damage insurance. 3 year
Get it all and consider that the ticket price. Then divide by 36 for the monthly SaaS-like price. Makes claude code seem cheap :)
I found it is worth it.
Especially as the home visit means no backup reinstall needed for many fixes, unless it is a full replacement. Such a time saver. And laptops are fragile. They need repair by default (think like a car not like a house double brick wall).

by canadiantim

0 subcomment

Yep, my last laptop was a used thinkpad and my current laptop is too. Huzzah.

by sublinear

0 subcomment

> There is something “special” about Thinkpads. It’s rare for such a long tradition of design and engineering to be allowed to continue inside mega-companies...
Not... really? They're mega-companies because of deliberate choices like that. Those choices are not the only way to get there, but they've found choices that work. I get that it's trendy to shit on successful businesses and be toxic about the crumbs you enjoy, but it's plain ignorant to call these things "accidents" or "coincidences" and nobody is forcing you to eat crumbs.
The later comparison to Apple is just as strange. Consumers aren't so particular and will buy anything at any price for almost no reason but marketing. All those people hyping Thinkpads may not be the original manufacturer, but they are selling them on eBay and effectively the vendors. They hype old Macs just the same.