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Not all Chess960 positions are equally complex

57 points by MaysonL

by __s

2 subcomments

> indicates a slight tendency for White to face harder opening decisions
supporting the quip "the hardest game is to win is a won game"
Not surprised at end re classical position not being the most even configuration. In that configuration bishops & knights practically start aimed at controlling center, so there's little awkward properties to dampen White's initiative. One of the rooks even get to castle out of the corner
Chess960 would be better if they just got rid of castling in it, tho wouldn't be surprised if that makes for certain positions getting even worse for Black
See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26066844 for thought on game theory of strategy when playing perfect is computationally infeasible

by ummonk

0 subcomment

They’ve defined memorization complexity as having to memorize the best out of almost equally good moves (as opposed to being able to play the best move without memorization because it is so obvious.
In reality it’s almost the other way around. Because white usually has several good moves at every point, they can just memorize one of them, while black needs to memorize how they’ll respond to every good move white could make.

by firasd

3 subcomments

by FergusArgyll

1 subcomments

I can't get myself to enjoy chess960. So much of my understanding of the game comes from pattern recognition and familiarity with concepts (e.g. This structure is basically a reverse carlsbad, black should play for the minority attack, white has to get a kingside attack rolling and the knight to e5)
960 is disorienting

by econ

0 subcomment

I have a special way of playing vs computers where every trade and every constraint is considered bad. The point is to keep enough paths open that it becomes a game of intuition and gambling. I never win of course but did have some games where it went in full retreat or spend 3-4 moves on putting pieces in their previous position or gradually changed its evaluation from a sizable advantage to disadvantage after thinking for a while.
I do the same with players who are to good to beat at a normal game.

by NickC25

0 subcomment

Ironically the starting position that I've found to be the most balanced for black and white is just swapping the starting square of the bishops and knights.
It turns normally-sound opening moves like 1.d4 and 1.e4 into liabilities and emphasizes the knights as blocking material to occupy squares like d2 and e2 , but the tradeoff is that a early-developed bishop can get a lot more active centrally via an open wing.
Such a layout makes for a very cautious opening phase where neither side really feels comfortable giving up much material. Really a fascinating setup.

by TZubiri

0 subcomment

"Remarkably, the classical starting position-despite centuries of cultural selection-lies far from the most balanced configuration."
Right, balance would be one of many parameters that make a game popular. Complexity is even a positive aspect of a game, a simple game with a simple optimal strategy would not be the most popular.
Simplicity of rules is another parameter, the classical configuration is somewhat symmetrical on the Queen King axis, many candidates would provide a rather asymmetrical and hard to remember initial configuration.

by thatfunkymunki

1 subcomments

interesting that the most balanced one is extremely similar to the default, which is not so:
> \#198 (\texttt{QNBRKBNR})is the most balanced, with both evaluation and asymmetry near zero... Remarkably, the classical starting position-despite centuries of cultural selection-lies far from the most balanced configuration.