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Hacker News Hacker NewsBy far the best thing is that he makes his own playdates. I'm not the middleman anymore. He just makes plans and asks me if it's ok. And if his friend doesn't have a landline, I let him call their parent. It surprises them, but when he leaves a message, they love it. He's definitely had more time with friends because of it.
Another funny thing was he complained about writing a thank you note, so we said "OK, the alternative is that you have to call them". He called them, had a nice conversation, and thanked them. Honestly, it was better than a thank you note.
It's been one of the best purchases we're made. I feel some hope this will delay the eventual begging for a smart phone because he's able to do the most critical thing, connect with friends.
- allowed list of apps, can reduce it to just phone, imessage, and utilities like weather app
- effectively permanent downtime, just set the end time less than start time such as 3:00 am to 2:59 am (technically 1 minute of non downtime). This blocks apps except for the allowed apps
- disable installing apps from app store
- disable adding new contacts and block calls and messages not in contact list. This allows parent to control who the phone can be used to contact
- none of these settings can be changed without the screen time pin
- also configure the phone with a minor apple account and add to your family group so you can monitor and control screen time settings from your phone.
So start with a super locked down phone that can only be used to communicate with parents. This is very helpful when they start after school sports. And the phone is so locked down they don't really have any interest in it.
Later when they're older start allowing communication with friends from school. But still only phone and imessage, no other apps. This reinforces that it's a communication device, not for endless scrolling and watching videos.
I read the previous discussion, oof:
S04dKHzrKT wrote
Make note of the privacy policy[1]. Some users may not like the data they collect. > Information Collected from Children: As detailed in Section 3.C, we collect voice audio during calls, call log information, and utilize the Parent-provided contact list in relation to the Child's use of the Tin Can Device. We may also collect device identifiers and technical usage data related to the Service.
It's getting more and more normal that sites won't link out of their own "property".
[1] https://www.scmp.com/tech/tech-trends/article/3328227/move-o...
Obvious benefits include low cost, full interop with all other phones, and having the kids learn our phone numbers by heart after punching them many times.
Nice to safe the kids from that... But who will save the adults? ^^
Yes, social media is bad for kids. You start to realize that. It only took 15 years. The thing is: It's equally bad for you...
And you prove that every minute. Whenever you say something, and after three sentences, basically every topic ends up in something related to Instatoktube.
My only hope is that what we are currently see rising is similar to what happened to alcoholism and chain smoking.
It's especially fun to watch them discover the very concept of a landline: the keypad (they thought it was a pin code); the dial tone; the memorizing and writing down of phone numbers.
5/5 highly recommended.
Is it the game changer we thought it would be? No. We thought my daughter would want to call her friends as much as she wants us to call their friends' parents to have them come over. We thought my son would use it as much as he texts on his gizmo.
Having said this, they are getting experience, albeit infrequent, with saying "Hello.... I love you. Goodbye."
And, yeah, when it rings, there is a mad-dash to pick it up. There is something uniquely pre cell phone ("reminds me of the 80s") about the joy and wonder of "Who could be calling me (at this hour)?"
I based it on the instructions provided by this Show HN post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39801991
It’s so fun watching them talk to their buddies from school, planning play dates, just chitchatting etc. My favorite thing is when they prank call one another, cracks me up.
Maybe the novelty wears off soon but for at least the last month or so they’ve used it every day. It feels like it gives them a bit of autonomy they’re seeking right now at their ages, but in a relatively safe way.
Highly recommend it.
Shameless plug: I started my own service without vendor hardware lock in.
I'm an older Gen-X and I've stopped doing this unless I recognize the caller. I'm not going to give a scammer anything to build a voice print on. I also use the stock greeting for voicemail instead of a personal one.
We have also told the kids we are not 24/7 actively monitoring them, because we woud like to trust them. Unless we think there's an issue they cannot, will not or are forced not to tell us, we will not intervene with their phone usually. They know we can track their phones anywhere on this planet and they don't care, because we are not acting as helicopter parents.
This has built trust between our kids and us parents. It forces us as parents to start trusting the kids and the kids get the freedom they want and need.
Is it 100% perfect? No, not by a long shot. It's a balance that may be scary for parents. We talk with them about stuff like doomscrolling, social media drama and privacy. They show us memes, tell us about their school life and usually do not care if we happen to see some private conversation on the corner of our eye.
Do the kids make mistakes? You bet. That's part of their life. Do we as parents make mistakes? Absolutely. None of the kids came with a manual. :)
If you're going to get this product, make sure you pay attention when you set it up, and opt out if you are privacy minded.
Voilà, telephone service as it used to be. No proprietary payphone with questionable ToS and privacy policies needed.
https://youtu.be/UhVi3smmvTs?si=ow6zw_xTKo22WpLZ
People can call each other but also businesses have 4-digit phone numbers that are shortened versions of the business name, like GUIT for the guitar shop.
If you run an asterisk server on your own box, you could easily set up a private SIP network just for you and your kids, or your kids and their friends, etc. and either run a SIP client on your mobile for your use and a VOIP SIP gateway if you want your kid to be able to call a friend's mobile.
EDIT: I just looked and the PAP2T has been discontinued, but there seem to be lots of units available new from China that look identical and are sold as Linksys PAP2T, and some unbranded units that look the same but with blank labels. I've no idea if these are fully compatible with the real PAP2T, but they might still be worth trying.
You can waitlist at https://havenphone.com if you are interested.
There were three major things I wanted to do differently from Tin Can:
- I wanted to use off the shelf VOIP hardware so if the company ever went out of business I (and any of my users) had an escape valve or could just sell the hardware.
- I wanted to have a code base I could open source. (not open source, yet!)
- I wanted flexibility to offer ATAs (devices that let you connect any ol' "analog" phone)- some of my parent friends wanted cordless "DACT" phones, interestingly.
It has been quite an adventure entering the world of VOIP.
The SIP protocol has so many esoteric options (understandably given its history!) it could make TLS look simple.
My most recent learning is this crazy protocol called TR-069 that ISPs use to configure endpoint hardware like home routers, cable modems, and VOIP phones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TR-069
Also, interestingly every cheap (sub-$50) phone and ATA I have tried has a built-in OpenVPN clients.
Oh, and one more interesting thing Grandstream ATAs are able to be taken over by the Grandstream cloud service by just providing the ATA serial number and mac address on the back of the device- I did not love that workflow when considering long-term security. (:
If you have $50 and some time to kill you can do it all yourself right now. In voip.ms you can use the phone book and the caller id filter to create a "*" hang-up rule and an "allow phone book" rule.
- https://major.io/p/85-cents-home-phone/
- https://www.voipsupply.com/fanvil-h3w-wifi-hotel-ip-phone-wh...
- https://www.voipsupply.com/fanvil-h2u-black-hotel-phone-v2
When I was a boy, there was no such word "playdate". What I'd do is just walk or ride my bike to a friend's house and knock on the door.
No parents involved.
The toughest part was figuring out which set of wires (my house had like 5 lines somehow) went to that particular jack in the kitchen.
For instance my boss couldn't call me while I'm out and about. What you expect me to carry my landline with me?
The tactility is incredible, and it's so just so cute to watch them chat away (5 year olds!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OADXNGnJok
Each of the kids has a really old cisco voip phone (I got 8 for £35).
There is a quick dial menu which connects too the loft, kid1, kid2, shed, living room. I also have an extension for my mobile.
That works for keeping everyone in touch and save a lot of "WHAT DID YOU SAY?".
So you have to pay a monthly subscription for this, in addition to $75 for each phone, if you want to talk with anyone outside of their walled garden?
Surely someone can build a more privacy-friendly decentralized solution?
It doesn't take much for Tin Can to start charging $50 / month for a subscription.
However, a new severely under-powered phone with no graphics or apps would probably meet the requirements of not being sucked into the grown-up world too early, and the kids can maintain their own contact lists.
And they'll grow super-fast thumbs like we had to in order to text :)
They cost about $50 but are still 4G.
I don't live in the US but my child, who is 9, does not have a cell phone nor does any of his school mates. They "chat" when they see each other in school, or when they hang out together to play after school.
A 3d printed case, a little SoC, perhaps a Raspberry Pi Zero, as the brains with asterisk and some additional open source software providing a web interface running on it.
That's entirely pragmatic in this data collecting age. Being silent and hanging up as soon as you hear the spam won't get you marked as a phone line that has a human on the other end nor do you risk your voice being recorded. If you're silly enough to say your name when answering you'll just end up with text and email that is now personalised with your name (it's much faster to identify and hang up when their best intro is to say "hello who am i speaking to?" on a single person line click).
I don't know anyone in my age bracket (45) who doesn't do this let alone those younger. It's entirely understood and expected. Fuck anyone who says it's rude and those of an age particularly prone to falling for scams (70+ and 15under) should be encouraged to do this. You should be telling your kids "never say anything on picking up, let the caller to your phone identify themselves! They could be scammers trying to get your details such as your name".
I feel all these "OMG the kids don't say hello anymore they have no etiquette!!!" statements are either from the clueless or from spammers frustrated that it's much harder to get through if you don't know their name.
It is actually amazing how far with a couple of tin cans, greaseproof paper taped around one end, and string attached to the paper. You are not going to do VOIP, but 50 yards is possible.
Even more OT:
One Xmas my Dad (unredeemable gadget freak, early adopter of the TRS80) gave me and my little bro two wired handsets with batteries and a ringer. We wired up brother's bedroom to living room, but soon realised our horrible mistake:
[ring, ring]
"Can I have a glass of water?"
[ring, ring]
"Can I have a glass of water?"
It lasted less than a day.
We also had a similar setup that did morse code, that was much less intrusive, not least because me and my little bro did not know morse, except for SOS.
- take a phone, remove features, package with bright colors, profit (or VC then profit, maybe).
Sadly a lot of those aren't recycling old gadgets, they are just making new ones and block features, lock down in their own "store", etc. I think it's actually quite terrible.
I guess that was my "tin can".
I don’t see why these would ever need to be more than a pay once product.
1. dumb phone with fixed dial contacts
2. properly set smartphone which can be used as dumb phone with restricted contacts and no app install allowed, apps screen time limited to zero or heck even browser disabled in guest profile
3. kids smartwatch with parental controls which limit who they can call and who can call and message them, I'm just working on one of these and it's great even for seniors
If you don't like kid having wearable with them I have shocking news for you - you can leave all of the above at home!
Btw. kids nowadays don't really call each other, they text (IM) each other. And for the record I am one of those few parents who didn't give phone/tablet to their toddlers hands like majority of people do wheever they are (public transport, car, waiting room, etc.), my older elementary school kid has "dumb" phone (my old Symbian Nokia, but he use it only for calls/SMS anyway, though I will probably switch to restricted smartphone since it's inconvenient even for me not being able to send whatsapp message, battery is crap and classmates have whatsapp as well), my younger elementary school kid doesn't have anything, but when she goes outside alone she takes Motorola walkie talkie with roughly 0.5-1km range in city.
edit: related call scene from Fight Club how Tyler properly answers the phone (not answering but calling back and his first response is "Who is this?"):
Although the idea is lovely, I'm not going to encourage my kiddo to chat with his buddies on a service that can hoover up their imagination for later manipulation.
But I dunno. Kids being what they are, seem to be developing curiosity about "retro tech". So maybe there's some sort of whiplash effect occurring among them.