Combine that with a flaky keyboard (say from a single grain of dust where it shouldn’t be) and you get a very annoying login experience. Over and over…

These servers I had an account setup too were, from what I observed, partially linked with the authentication mechanism used by the VPN and IAM services. Like they'd have this mandatory password reset process and sometimes sudo was set to that new password, other times it was whatever was the old one. Couple that with the high latency connection and password authentication was horrible. You would never know if you mistyped something, or the password itself was incorrect or the password you pasted went through or got double pasted.

I think this is a great addition, but only if it leads to redhat adopting it which is what they were running on their VMs.

In the modern world there is no plausible scenario where this would compromise a password that wouldn't otherwise also be compromised with equivalent effort.

As for security: 'shoulder surfing' may not be as much of a concern, but watching a livestream or presentation of someone who uses sudo will now expose the password length over the internet (and it's recorded for posterity, so all the hackers can find it later!). They've just introduced a new vulnerability to the remote world.

This wasn't someone seeing Chesterton's fence and deciding to knock it down thoughtlessly. This is a change that someone can in fact think all the way through and say "yeah, this should be changed, it's an improvement and doesn't cause any meaningful reduction in security".

I would've thought it would've been a simple carry over from before terminals were glass. Like, yeah, I get up from a glass terminal and someone else goes to use it, but wouldn't the scrollback be cleared when I log out? But silent logins from before glass terminals makes a ton of sense; it would literally print your typed characters on a real, physical medium. having

    login: cool_user
    password: hunter2

I dunno, I take them at their word but if you had asked me why password prompts in the terminal don't echo, I would've guessed it was a carry-over from the days of real teletype terminals.

Though I guess the broader context is if the attacker has "shoulder-level access" you probably have bigger things to worry about ;)

> For a time, there was rich pickings in applications that accepted passwords in unbuffered mode. Many of them doing it so that they could echo "*" symbols, character by character, as the user typed. That simple feature looks cool, and does give the user feedback ... but would leak the keystroke rate, which is the last thing you want on password entry.

This was in response to keystroke timing defense on SSH. Does this feature still come with the risk of leaking keystroke timing to an attacker with recent OpenSSH/Dropbear versions? If so, it might be wise to keep it disabled on servers.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37309122

If we know the password's length, it saves us from guessing any shorter passwords. For example, for a numeric password, knowing the length is 4 saves us from having to guess [blank], 0-9, 00-99 and 000-999. This lowers the number of possibilities from 1111 to 1000. The password has 90% of it's original strength. A [0-9a-zA-Z] password retains 98% of it's original strength

I didn't actually know that Mint had enabled this by default. That would have been a useful counterpoint to the naysayers.

If you want the original behaviour you don't actually need to change the configuration - they added a patch afterwards so you can press tab and it will hide the password just for that time.

> The catalyst for Ubuntu’s change is sudo-rs

Actually it was me getting sufficiently pissed off at the 2 second delay for invalid passwords in sudo (actually PAM's fault). There's no reason for it (if you think there is look up unix_chkpwd). I tried to fix it but the PAM people have this strange idea that people like the delay. So I gave up on that and thought I may as well try fixing this other UX facepalm too. I doubt it would have happened with the original sudo (and they said as much) so it did require sudo-rs to exist.

I think this is one of the benefits of rewriting coreutils and so on in Rust - people are way more open to fixing long-standing issues. You don't get the whole "why are you overturning 46 years of tradition??" nonsense.

If anyone wants to rewrite PAM in Rust... :-D

https://github.com/linux-pam/linux-pam/issues/778

Not showing feedback on user input is objectively confusing for inexperienced users.

I value ctrl+U a lot more for password prompts than the visual feedback, it's even used by GUI on Linux.

apt install sudo-ws

apt remove coreutils-from-uutils --allow-remove-essential

Is it usable now? Do all utilities support all of GNU's features (or most)?

It's on brand for Ubuntu, though. They've been looking for an audience that is not me for a very long time. I sometimes worry about Debian's resistance to social pressure, though. It seems that Debian doesn't fall for marketing or corporate pressure, but they sometimes fall when they are surrounded by people who have fallen for marketing or corporate pressure.

And yes, it remember how many it echoes so backspace works correctly.

A space with a cursor instead of an asterisk would make it harder to count the Chars

Adding a random 1 to 3 output chars instead of one would obfuscate this even more.

A delayed output could make you submit the password prompt before showing anything.

A single asterisk that switches back to space after 250ms inactivity may even be better.

I don't know, but somehow this feels underthought even if it probably is not. Simple is probably the best approach

I don't really want to just disable passwords. I recall that causing technical pains. And this is a desktop PC in my home office and I'm just generally okay with the associated security risks.

I always thought it was annoying anyway.

I'm sure someone things this is a good idea, but I do not, and nobody cares what I think. But I come from being a long-time coder who's always been a terrible typist and can't depend on "touch typing" and have to actually look at things, like the keys, and the screen. And handicapped by going blind in one eye, and having arguments with eye doctors who say "get used to it and switch to audio books" and needing 14-point boldface fonts for everything.

So hide the first one as well? But also, that's not true, not all terminal passwords are for local machine

> Confusing — appears frozen

So make it appear flashing? Still doesn't need to reveal length

It feels like dumbing down the cli.

But I don't know if this is an elder millenial walk up hill in the snow both ways kind of thing though.

Am I alone in this?

The expectation with sudo is silent passwords.

What?!

2026 minus 46 is 1980. There was no Linux, at all, in 1980.

Someone is quite confused.

The security argument is a red herring. It was originally built with no echo because it was easier to turn echo on and off than to echo asterisks. Not for security.

Instead of doing this, Ubuntu is just using a Rust rewrite of sudo. Some things really never change.

⣾, ⣽, ⣻, ⢿, ⡿, ⣟, ⣯, ⣷

This reminds me. Linux was already a fossil, except for some niches, but now in the age of AI, the fact that code can't be updated at will (and instead has to go through some medieval social process) is fatal. Soon the age will be here where we generate the necessary OS features on the fly. No more compatibility layers, no more endless abstractions, no more binaries to distribute, no more copyright, no need to worry about how "the others" use their systems, no more bike shedding. Instead, let the system manage itself, it knows best. We'll get endless customization without the ballast.

It's time to set software free from the social enclosures we built around it.