{                                                                                                                                                              
    "sandbox": {                                                                                                                                               
      "enabled": true,
      "filesystem": {
        "allowRead": ["."],
        "denyRead": ["~/"],
        "allowWrite": ["."],
        "denyWrite": ["/"]
      }                                                                                                                                                          
    }
  }

We've been securing our systems in all ways possible for decades and then one day just said: oh hello unpredictable, unreliable, Turing-complete software that can exfiltrate and corrupt data in infinite unknown ways -- here's the keys, go wild.

> Stop trusting blindly

> One-line installer scripts,

Here are the manual install instructions from the "Install / Build page:

> curl -L https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/snapshot/jai.tar.gz | tar xzf -

> cd jai

> makepkg -i

So, trust their jai tool, but not _other_ installer scripts?

I guess the "Future of Digital Currency Initiative" had to pivot to a more useful purpose than studying how Bitcoin is going to change the world.

It looks both more convenient and slightly more secure than my solution, which is that I just give them a separate user.

Agents can nuke the "agent" homedir but cannot read or write mine.

I did put my own user in the agent group, so that I can read and write the agent homedir.

It's a little fiddly though (sometimes the wrong permissions get set, so I have a script that fixes it), and keeping track of which user a terminal is running as is a bit annoying and error prone.

---

But the best solution I found is "just give it a laptop." Completely forget OS and software solutions, and just get a separate machine!

That's more convenient than switching users, and also "physically on another machine" is hard to beat in terms of security :)

It's analogous to the mac mini thing, except that old ThinkPads are pretty cheap. (I got this one for $50!)

> jai itself was hand implemented by a Stanford computer science professor with decades of C++ and Unix/linux experience. (https://jai.scs.stanford.edu/faq.html#was-jai-written-by-an-...)

I had originally thought this would ok as we could review everything in the git diff. But, it later occurred to me that there are all kinds of files that the agent could write to that I'd end up executing, as the developer, outside the sandbox. Every .pyc file for instance, files in .venv , .git hook files.

ChatGPT[1] confirms the underlying exploit vectors and also that there isn't much discussion of them in the context of agent sandboxing tools.

My conclusion from that is the only truly safe sandboxing technique would be one that transfers files from the sandbox to the dev's machine through some kind of git patch or similar. I.e. the file can only transfer if it's in version control and, therefore presumably, has been reviewed by the dev before transfer outside the sandbox.

I'd really like to see people talking more about this. The solution isn't that hard, keep CWD as an overlay and transfer in-container modified files through a proxy of some kind that filters out any file not in git and maybe some that are but are known to be potentially dangerous (bin files). Obviously, there would need to be some kind of configuration option here.

1: https://chatgpt.com/share/69c3ec10-0e40-832a-b905-31736d8a34...

Run <ai tool of your choice> under its own user account via ssh. Bind mount project directories into its home directory when you want it to be able to read them. Mount command looks like

    sudo mkdir /home/<ai-user>/<dir-name>
    sudo mount --bind <dir to mount> --map-groups $(id -g <user>):$(id -g <ai-user>):1 --map-users $(id -u <user>):$(id -u <ai-user>):1 /home/<ai-user>/<dir-name>

I've been using claude code daily for months and the worst thing that happened wasnt a wipe(yet). It needed to save an svg file so it created a /public/blog/ folder. Which meant Apache started serving that real directory instead of routing /blog. My blog just 404'd and I spent like an hour debugging before I figured it out. Nothing got deleted and it's not a permission problem, the agent just put a file in a place that made sense to it.

jai would help with the rm -rf cases for sure but this kind of thing is harder to catch because its not a permissions problem, the agent just doesn't know what a web server is.

I like the tradeoff offered: full access to the current directory, read-only access to the rest, copy-on-write for the home directory. With stricter modes to (presumably) protect against data exfiltration too. It really feels like it should be the default for agent systems.

E.g. if I have a VM to which I grant only access to a folder with some code (let's say open-source, and I don't care if it leaks) and to the Internet, if I do my agent-assistant coding within it, it will only have my agent credentials it can leak. Then I can do git operations with my credentials outside of the VM.

Is there a more convenient setup than this, which gives me similar security guarantees? Does it come with the paid offerings of the top providers? Or is this still something I'd have to set up separately?

I wonder if and how jai managed to address these limitations of overlayfs. Basically, the same dir should not be mounted as an overlayfs upper layer by different overlayfs mounts. If you run 'jai bash' twice in different terminals, do the two instances get two different writable home dir overlays, or the same one? In the second case, is the second 'jai bash' command joining the mount namespace of the first one, or create a new one with the same shared upper dir?

This limitation of overlays is described here: https://docs.kernel.org/filesystems/overlayfs.html :

'Using an upper layer path and/or a workdir path that are already used by another overlay mount is not allowed and may fail with EBUSY. Using partially overlapping paths is not allowed and may fail with EBUSY. If files are accessed from two overlayfs mounts which share or overlap the upper layer and/or workdir path, the behavior of the overlay is undefined, though it will not result in a crash or deadlock.'

Good DX, straightforward permissions system, starts up instantly. Just remember to disable CC’s auto-updater if that’s what you’re using. My sandbox ranking: nono > lima > containers.

I want AI to have full and unrestricted access to the OS. I don't want to babysit it and approve every command. Everything that is on that VM is a fair game and the VM image is backed up regularly from outside.

This is the only way.

https://github.com/pkulak/nix/tree/main/common/jai

Arg, annoying that it puts its config right in my home folder...

EDIT: Actually, I'm having a heck of a time packaging this properly. Disregard for now!

EDIT2: It was a bit more complicated than a single derivation. Had to wrap it in a security wrapper, and patch out some stuff that doesn't work on the 25.11 kernel.

So couldn't this be done with an appropriate shell alias - at least under linux.

The bot should also be instructed that it gets 3 strikes before being removed meaning it should generate a report of what it believes it wants to access to and gets verbal approval or denial. That should not be so difficult with today's bots. If it wants to act like a human then it gets simple rules like a human. Ask the human operator for permission. If the bot starts "doing it's own thing, aka going rogue" then it gets punished. Perhaps another bot needs to act as a dominatrix to be a watcher over the assistant bot.

My biggest question skimming over the docs is what a workflow for reviewing and applying overlay changes to the out-of-cwd dirs would be.

Also, bit tangential but if anyone has slightly more in-depth resources for grasping the security trade-offs between these kind of Linux-leveraging sandboxes, containers, and remote VMs I'd appreciate it. The author here implies containers are still more secure in principle, and my intuition is that there's simply less unknowns from my perspective, but I don't have a firm understanding.

Anyhow, kudos to the author again, looks useful.

It works pretty well, agent which I choose to run can only write and see the current working directory (and subdirectories) as well as those pnpm/npm etc software development files. It cannot access other than the mounted directories in my home directory.

Now some evil command could in theory write to those shared ~/.npm-global directories some commands, that I then inadvertently run without the container but that is pretty unlikely.

Please release binaries if you're making a utility :(

I've been building an independent benchmarking platform for AI agents. The two approaches are complementary. Sandbox the environment, verify the agent.

File system isolation is easy now, it’s not worth HN front page space for the n’th version. It’s a solved problem (and now included in Claude clCode).

I’ve found it to be a good balance for letting Claude loose in a VM running the commands it wants while having all my local MCPs and tools still available.

More seriously, I'm not a heavy agent user, but I just create a user account for the agent with none of my own files or ssh keys or anything like that. Hopefully that's safe enough? I guess the risk is that it figures out a local privilege escalation exploit...

I've been struggling to find what Ai has intrinsically solved new that gives us the chance to completely change workflows, other these weird things occuring.

*I played with codex a few months ago, but I don't even work in IT.

It has left my project in a complete mess, but never my entire computer.

  git reset --hard && git clean -fd 

I think this is turning into a good example of security theatrics. If the agent was actually as nefarious as the marketing here suggests, the solution proposed is not adequate. No solution is. Not even a separate physical computer. We need to be honest about the size of this problem.

Alternatively, maybe Claude is unusually violent to the local file system? I've not used it at all, so perhaps I am missing something here.

Ignoring the confidentiality arguments posed here, I can’t help to think about snapshotting filesystems in this context. Wouldn’t something like ZFS be an obvious solution to an agent deleting or wildly changing files? That wouldn’t protect against all issue the authors are trying to address, but it seems like an easy safeguard against some of the problems people face with agents.

I created https://github.com/jrz/container-shell which basically launches a persistent interactive shell using docker, chrooted to the CWD

CWD is bind mounted so the rest is simply not visible and you can still install anything you want.

I wonder if shitty looking websites and unambitious grammar will become how we prove we are human soon.

Especially because everybody can ask chatgpt/claude how to run some agents without any further knowledge I feel we should handle it more like we are handling encryption where the advice is to use established libraries and don't implement those algorithms by yourself.

This also applies to the first technology human beings developed: fire .

Easy :-) lxd/lxc containers are much much underrated. Works only with Linux though.

Use it! :) https://code.claude.com/docs/en/sandboxing

https://nanoclaw.dev

This particular solution is very bad. To start off with, it's basically offering you security, right? Look, bars in front of an evil AI! An AI jail! That's secure, right? Yet the very first mode it offers you is insecure. The "casual" mode allows read access to your whole home directory. That is enough to grant most attackers access to your entire digital life.

Most people today use webmail. And most people today allow things like cookies to be stored unencrypted on disk. This means an attacker can read a cookie off your disk, and get into your mail. Once you have mail, you have everything, because virtually every account's password reset works through mail.

And this solution doesn't stop AI exfiltration of sensitive data, like those cookies, out the internet. Or malware being downloaded into copy-on-write storage space, to open a reverse shell and manipulate your existing browser sessions. But they don't mention that on the fancy splash page of the security tool.

The truth is that you actually need a sophisticated, complex-as-hell system to protect from AI attacks. There is no casual way to AI security. People need to know that, and splashy pages like this that give the appearance of security don't help the situation. Sure, it has disclaimers occasionally about it not being perfect security, read the security model here, etc. But the only people reading that are security experts, and they don't need a splash page!

Stanford: please change this page to be less misleading. If you must continue this project with its obviously insecure modes, you need to clearly emphasize how insecure it is by default. (I don't think it even qualifies as security software)

I've built my own cli that runs the agent + docker compose (for the app stack) inside container for dev and it's working great. I love --dangerously-skip-permissions. There's 0 benefit to us whitelisting the agent while it's in flight.

Anthropic's new auto mode looks like an untrustworthy solution in search of a problem - as an aside. Not sure who thought security == ml classification layer but such is 2026.

If you're on linux and have kvm, there's Lima and Colima too.

You have no excuse for "it deleted 15 years of photos, gone, forever."

https://github.com/kenryu42/claude-code-safety-net

>>> "While this web site was obviously made by an LLM" So I am expecting to trust the LLM written security model https://jai.scs.stanford.edu/security.html

These guys are experts from a prestigious academic institution. Leading "Secure Computer Systems", whose logo is a 7 branch red star, which looks like a devil head, with white palm trees in the background. They are also chilling for some Blockchain research, and future digital currency initiative, taking founding from DARPA.

The website also points towards external social networks for reference to freely spread Fear Uncertainty Doubt.

So these guys are saying, go on run malware on your computer but do so with our casual sandbox at your own risk.

Remember until yesterday Anthropic aka Claude was officially a supply chain risk.

If you want to experiment with agents safely (you probably can't), I recommend building them from the ground up (to be clear I recommend you don't but if you must) by writing the tools the LLM is allowed to use, yourself, and by determining at each step whether or not you broke the security model.

Remember that everything which comes from a LLM is untrusted. You'll be tempted to vibe-code your tools. The LLMs will try to make you install some external dependencies, which you must decide if you trust them or not and review them.

Because everything produced by the LLM is untrusted, sharing the results is risky. A good starting point, is have the LLM, produce single page html page. Serve this static page from a webserver (on an external server to rely on Same Origin Policy to prevent the page from accessing your files and network (like github pages using a new handle if you can't afford a vps) ). This way you rely on your browser sandbox to keep you safe, and you are as safe as when visiting a malware-infested page on the internet.

If you are afraid of writing tools you can start by copy-pasting, and reading everything produced.

Once you write tools, you'll want to have them run autonomously in a runaway loop taking user feedback or agent feedback as input. But even if everything is contained, these run away loop can and will produce harmful content in your name.

Here is such vibe-coded experiment I did a few days ago. A simple 2d physics water molecules simulation for educational purposes. It is not physically accurate, and still have some bugs, and regressions between versions. Good enough to be harmful. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47510746

When is HN gonna get a rule against AI/generated slop? Can’t come soon enough.

The name jai is very taken[1]... names matter.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jai_(programming_language)