- It's a very small concession. The high initial friction still means when someone comes to me with a problem and I tell them the solution is in F-Droid, they have to wait a day. Most give up and pick a different, less trustworthy solution from Google Play.
- Play store is the largest distributor of spyware and viruses for Android.
Not even a small fraction of a percentage of scams come from installing software normally, but only from Google Play store.
- We hereby grant you a conditional right to install software on the device you "own", subject to conditions, and terms, but only under certain circumstances and only so long as it pleases us.
Modern handheld computing is such a shitshow...
- None of the comments here seem to discuss or even mention how this situation looks from googles perspective? I feel like HN readers are not aware of the scale of the problem they face or their motivation behind these changes.
If you look at the rate of growth of the call/text scam industry I think it's entirely possible that android owners are getting scammed out of more money than google themselves makes on the android platform as a whole. It's at least not that far off. Which doesn't even account for the humanitarian issues which they probably feel partially responsible for.
- What's the phone OS landscape now? What can someone who values their agency and wants FOSS choose?
* iOS - walled garden, so no
* Android:
* * with a Google account and Play Services - a bit less of a walled garden, but still no
* * Android without Google:
* * * GrapheneOS - root or adb not supported, so no
* * * LineageOS - (edit: root or adb not supported, so no - just learned) seems like a viable option although it seems like it depends on Google's development of Android and keeping it FOSS. How's the situation with security updates? Which phones would you recommend? I don't count Samsung or whatever crap as they're generally quite user-hostile.
* Linux - IIRC only PMOS supported FDE. Is that still the case? Are there are good Linux phones? I tried PinePhone a few years ago, but it was crappy. The OS also lacked basic features like new windows showing up inside the screen.
* anything else?
- When typos are inadvertently funny:
> Google’s been working hard to relive everyone’s fears...
- Two steps forwards and one step backwards in the never-ending march to dytopia and you celebrate it as a show of your generosity and benevolence! I don't know who you're trying to fool. But I'm certainly interested in finding out, because that person must be both naïve and incredibly powerful if you think that it's worthwhile to pull off a public charade like this.
- This is still unacceptable.
by throwaway81523
0 subcomment
- I thought that even after the 24h wait, you will have to go through some annoying dialog to install (or maybe even update) anything not from the play store. So installing from F-droid will become an obnoxious process. Even worse if updates also become obnoxious. F-droid often wants to update several apps at once, so I click "update all". If that becomes multiple dialogs, that sucks.
- The first thing I do with any new phone is to enable developer mode. If it is weekend, I will use adb to sideload, if not, I will do it in next weekend as I don't have much time at workdays. In any case the sideloading will be done on the same day as now. Problem solved.
by andyjohnson0
0 subcomment
- One thing I've never been able to understand about this new sideload "flow" is whether it will be applied to older devices, or just from some (future or recent) version of Android. Does anyone know?
by bedrizzled
1 subcomments
- Key point from the article:
> ADB would be unaffected, and any power users who needed to install an app straight away could always connect their Android device to a computer and use ADB commands to manually install - no delay at all.
So in practice this won't be an issue for anyone tech-savvy who uses their Android device with apps outside of the Play Store, as they can simply install through the ADB mechanism via a separate device. It can even be done using WebUSB.
However, the many, many people worldwide who lack such technical knowledge, and are more susceptible to being scammed via malicious app installs because of it, are still protected by this new process Google are introducing.
- Guggle et all, are starting to panick, as the whole adversurvielance scam is unraveling, there is NO concievable end game.
The surviving frogs, having been cooked en mass are getting ready to spontainiously evolve, AI is destroying vulnerable peoples ability to make descisions and the knock on effects as basic infrastucture erodes while costs spiral and actual knowledge is lost, but AI will be cheering them on by telling them walking and chewing gum are seperate activities that should be scheduled sequentialy after rest periods.
by phendrenad2
0 subcomment
- Google is going to keep tweaking this because they have two conflicting goals. They want to cut off alternative app stores where they don't get their 30% cut, and they absolutely do not want to push people to other operating systems like graphene etc. They need it to be very high friction to accomplish the former, but if they make it too high-friction they'll trigger the latter. It's a catch-22, and they're going to dither in an infinite loop.
- How is that setting supposed to carry over if I don't even have a Google account on my phone?
And even if I disregard that for a moment, what's up with the author being a mouthpiece for Google?
> Google's latest concession makes the sideloading controversy a big nothingburger
> Opting out is going to be even less of a problem than we thought
> This afternoon, Google’s Matthew Forsythe shares some answers to questions he’s gotten about the minutiae of how this process all works — and he’s got some very, *very* good news for us.
(emphasis theirs)
> Doing that once with every new phone already sounded perfectly manageable. But now Google clarifies that even that won’t be necessary, with the opt-out able to be transferred as we upgrade phones. That is maybe just the best news we could have gotten here, and hopefully it’s enough to calm everyone down about the sideloading-sky falling.
- How will the transfer occur? I'm assuming via Google account?
So this is vendor lock-in to an online account being sold as a way to "win" against a problem _created_ by said vendor? I would prefer a per-device wait time and I sincerely hope a Google account will not be a hard requirement. I didn't consider this initially.
Google is in the process of stealing the shirts from our backs and selling them back to us. Whoever wrote this article is drinking the kool-aid. This should NOT be presented as a positive thing. Some of us use Android without a Google account and would still like to sideload.
- this is awesome! because i get a new phone every week, this will save me so much time.
WAT? how is that even better than the ability to skip the wait time?
you are right, i am not seriously bothered by the wait time, i'd just activate it on a new phone, wait a day and be done with it. i have had to wait two weeks to unlock a xiaomi phone, so this is not that of a big deal. (besides i am not going to be affected anyways because i use a custom rom, but that's besides the point. let's assume i will be affected)
who changes their phone so often that being able to carry over the setting to skip the wait is a win?
i am embarrassed that i fell for this article, believing that there would actually be a genuine improvement to sideloading.
by hagbard_c
1 subcomments
- You still seem to need a Google account to be able to use the hardware you just paid for. I don't have one, don't want one either. I've been using Android without Google for about 15 years now but will hold off on getting a new device until I'm sure I can continue using it without getting a Google account.
- Google clarifies that this status can carry over to new devices, so you only ever have to go through it once.
by underlipton
0 subcomment
- They're tightening the noose. Fight, or lose computing sovereignty forever.
- Maybe Im a conspiracist but it seems there is a recent concerted effort to lock OS platforms down.
Just last week apple added an age verification system to uk iPhones. No legal req. as far as I can tell
- I’m only marginally aware of how these systems work, can someone more knowledgeable tell me the difference between Google’s implementation of this restriction and the restrictions already present on GrapheneOS? Is it correct to say that both are implemented for security reasons?
- Bring back keypad based phones with J2ME, they were way too fun.
- > Google's latest concession makes the sideloading controversy a big nothingburger
Ah yes, having to now send in a government ID to publish apps on the Play Store is a "big nothingburger". Kindly piss off, megacorp bootlicker Stephen Schenck.
- What is this steaming pile of shit? Android and Google are bending their customers over a table and ramming it into their asses.
If a device doesn't allow the user full control, then it isn't your device.
You are renting it from a duopoly that will bend over backwards to give all your data to the government! Also selling it to other corporations.
It is no excuse that an extremely small amount of ancient people over 85 who have never used technology in their life got scammed by some foreigner who worked them over for a full day or two.
That will happen regardless of whatever immoral restrictions are placed on our devices.
If you aren't smart enough to use the tech, don't use it.
- > Google's latest concession makes the sideloading controversy a big nothingburger.
It's really not. Try to realise that it's not meant to be Google's phone and they shouldn't be "letting" me do things
- "Government gives citizens a win by allowing them to breathe air."
- There is no win. They are winning 50-0 and they just scored an own-goal; so what?!
- can't wait until this is just completely bypassed and we can ignore Google again.
- I despise how this incredibly user-hostile move is spun in the title: "Google just gave Android power users a huge sideloading win", as if it was a good thing that Google did for some portion of its users. That's such a blatant, incredibly damaging lie, on all levels, that it's probably called journalism at this point.
- [flagged]
- Very, very good news everyone! Google has agreed to only gently fuck us in the ass! They were even kind enough to offer to use lube!
by catlikesshrimp
1 subcomments
- WTF win? Sounds like I will need a tracking google account because it can "carry over" when I "upgrade my phone"
"Google giving a concession" is no win.
WTF Concession? Why are we asking google for permission to use the devices we bought as they see fit?
Ok, google is doing what is best for them, abusing users. But the manufacturers are really to blame here because the devices are by default locked to what google and them decide. There is no Market Choice here.
by akimbostrawman
0 subcomment
- "Just log into our online account" is not a concession at all. This sideloading drama is laughable anyways since the bigger issue should be there rootkit access and appstore monopoly.
- How long before there is a "we've detected your account has been used multiple times to re-setup a phone.. we've re-enabled the Google Nanny Safety mode.. also we've locked your google account just in case.. "
I mean other than hackers, who has needed to factory reset their phone more than once in a year you must be doing something shady... right right?
by NooneAtAll3
1 subcomments
- step 1: make situation very bad
step 2: make situation tiiiny amount better
step 3: proclaim this as "a win"
...really?
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