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Hacker News Hacker Newswrite x#y for 1/(x-y).
x#0 = 1/(x-0) = 1/x, so you get reciprocals. Then (x#y)#0 = 1/((1/(x-y)) - 0) = x-y, so subtraction.
it's common problem to show in any (insert various algebraic structure here ) inverse and subtraction gives all 4 elementary ops.
I haven't checked this carefully, but this note seems to give a short proof (modulo knowing some other items...) https://dmg.tuwien.ac.at/goldstern/www/papers/notes/singlebi...
I'm still reading this, but if this checks out, this is one of the most significant discoveries in years.
Why use splines or polynomials or haphazardly chosen basis functions if you can just fit (gradient descent) your data or wave functions to the proper computational EML tree?
Got a multidimensional and multivariate function to model (with random samples or a full map)? Just do gradient descent and convert it to approximant EML trees.
Perform gradient descent on EML function tree "phi" so that the derivatives in the Schroedinger equation match.
But as I said, still reading, this sounds too good to be true, but I have witnessed such things before :)
A stack of zeros and ones can be encoded in a single number by keeping with bit-shifting and incrementing.
Pushing a 0 onto the stack is equivalent to doubling the number.
Pushing a 1 is equivalent to doubling and adding 1.
Popping is equivalent to dividing by 2, where the remainder is the number.
Rejoice is a concatenative programming language in which data is encoded as multisets that compose by multiplication. Think Fractran, without the rule-searching, or Forth without a stack.
``` look at this paper: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2603.21852
now please produce 2x+y as a composition on EMLs ```
Opus(paid) - claimed that "2" is circular. Once I told it that ChatGPT have already done this, finished successfully.
ChatGPT(free) - did it from the first try.
Grok - produced estimation of the depth of the formula.
Gemini - success
Deepseek - Assumed some pre-existing knowledge on what EML is. Unable to fetch the pdf from the link, unable to consume pdf from "Attach file"
Kimi - produced long output, stopped and asked to upgrade
GLM - looks ok
Reminds me of the Iota combinator, one of the smallest formal systems that can be combined to produce a universal Turing machine, meaning it can express all of computation.
eml(z, eml(x, 1))
= e^z - ln(eml(x, 1))
= e^z - ln(e^x)
= e^z - x
e^z = 0,
x^-1 has the same problem.
both formulae work ...sort of... if we allow ln(0) = Infinity and some other moxie, such as x / Infinity = 0 for all finite x.
Few ideas that come to my mind when reading this:
1. One should also add absolute value (as sqrt(x*x)?) as a desired function and from that min, max, signum in the available functions. Since the domain is complex some of them will be a bit weird, I am not sure.
2. I think, for any bijective function f(x) which, together with its inverse, is expressible using eml(), we can obtain another universal basis eml(f(x),f(y)) with the added constant f^-1(1). Interesting special case is when f=exp or f=ln. (This might also explain the EDL variant.)
3. The eml basis uses natural logarithm and exponent. It would be interesting to see if we could have a basis with function 2^x - log_2(y) and constants 1 and e (to create standard mathematical functions like exp,ln,sin...). This could be computationally more feasible to implement. As a number representation, it kinda reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elias_omega_coding.
4. I would like to see an algorithm how to find derivatives of the eml() trees. This could yield a rather clear proof why some functions do not have indefinite integrals in a symbolic form.
5. For some reason, extending the domain to complex numbers made me think about fuzzy logics with complex truth values. What would be the logarithm and exponential there? It could unify the Lukasiewicz and product logics.
That's awesome. I always wondered if there is some way to do this.
Quick google seach brings up https://github.com/pr701/nor_vm_core, which has a basic idea
https://gist.github.com/CGamesPlay/9d1fd0a9a3bd432e77c075fb8...
I read the paper. Is there a table covering all other math operations translated to eml(x,y) form?
One thing I wonder now: NAND is symmetric while this isn't, could something similar be found where function(x, y) = function(y, x)?
So, what happens if you take say the EML expression for addition, and invert the binary tree?
Simply because bool algebra doesn't have that many functions and all of them are very simple to implement.
A complex bool function made out of NANDs (or the likes) is little more complex than the same made out of the other operators.
Implementing even simple real functions out of eml() seems to me to add a lot of computational complexity even with both exp() and ln() implemented in hardware in O(1). I think about stuff sum(), div() and mod().
Of course, I might be badly wrong as I am not a mathematician (not even by far).
But I don't see, at the moment, the big win on this.
Posts like these are the reason i check HN every day
It’s a derivation of the Y combinator from ruby lambdas
Exp and ln, isn't the operation its own inverse depending on the parameter? What a neat find.
What comes to my mind as an alternative which I would subjectivity finer is "axe". Think axiom or axiology.
Anyone with other suggestions? Or even remarks on this one?
nix run github:pveierland/eml-eval
EML Evaluator — eml(x, y) = exp(x) - ln(y)
Based on arXiv:2603.21852v2 by A. Odrzywołek
Constants
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 K=1 d=0 got 1 expected 1 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
e K=3 d=1 got 2.718281828 expected 2.718281828 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
0 K=7 d=3 got 0 expected 0 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
-1 K=17 d=7 got -1 expected -1 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
2 K=27 d=9 got 2 expected 2 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
-2 K=43 d=11 got -2 expected -2 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
1/2 K=51 d=15 got 0.5 expected 0.5 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
-1/2 K=67 d=17 got -0.5 expected -0.5 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
2/3 K=103 d=19 got 0.6666666667 expected 0.6666666667 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
-2/3 K=119 d=21 got -0.6666666667 expected -0.6666666667 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
sqrt2 K=85 d=21 got 1.414213562 expected 1.414213562 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
i K=75 d=19 got i expected i sym=ok num=ok [i²=-1, simplify]
pi K=153 d=29 got 3.141592654 expected 3.141592654 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
Unary functions (x = 7/3)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
exp(x) K=3 d=1 got 10.3122585 expected 10.3122585 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
ln(x) K=7 d=3 got 0.8472978604 expected 0.8472978604 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
-x K=17 d=7 got -2.333333333 expected -2.333333333 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
1/x K=25 d=8 got 0.4285714286 expected 0.4285714286 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
x - 1 K=11 d=4 got 1.333333333 expected 1.333333333 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
x + 1 K=27 d=9 got 3.333333333 expected 3.333333333 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
2x K=67 d=17 got 4.666666667 expected 4.666666667 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
x/2 K=51 d=15 got 1.166666667 expected 1.166666667 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
x^2 K=41 d=10 got 5.444444444 expected 5.444444444 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
sqrt(x) K=59 d=16 got 1.527525232 expected 1.527525232 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
Binary operations (x = 7/3, y = 5/2)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
x + y K=27 d=9 got 4.833333333 expected 4.833333333 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
x - y K=11 d=4 got -0.1666666667 expected -0.1666666667 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
x * y K=41 d=10 got 5.833333333 expected 5.833333333 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
x / y K=25 d=8 got 0.9333333333 expected 0.9333333333 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]
x ^ y K=49 d=12 got 8.316526261 expected 8.316526261 sym=ok num=ok [simplify]And i is obviously `sqrt(-1)`
Here is my attempt. I think they should be optimal up to around 15 eml.nodrs, the latter might not be:
# 0
1=1
# 1
exp(x)=eml(x,1)
e-ln(x)=eml(1,x)
e=exp(1)
# 2
e-x=e-ln(exp(x))
# 3
0=e-e
ln(x)=e-(e-ln(x))
exp(x)-exp(y)=eml(x,exp(exp(y)))
# 4
id(x)=e-(e-x)
inf=e-ln(0)
x-ln(y)=eml(ln(x),y)
# 5
x-y=x-ln(exp(y))
-inf=e-ln(inf)
# 6
-ln(x)=eml(-inf,x)
ln(ln(x))=ln(ln(x))
# 7
-x=-ln(exp(x))
-1=-1
x^-1=exp(-ln(x))
ln(x)+ln(y)=e-((e-ln(x))-ln(y))
ln(x)-ln(y)=ln(x)-ln(y) # using x - ln(y)
# 8
xy=exp(ln(x)+ln(y))
x/y=exp(ln(x)-ln(y))
# 9
x + y = ln(exp(x))+ln(exp(y))
2 = 1+1
# 10
ipi = ln(-1)
# 13
-ipi=-ln(-1)
x^y = exp(ln(x)y)
# 16
1/2 = 2^-1
# 17
x/2 = x/2
x2 = x2
# 20
ln(sqrt(x)) = ln(x)/2
# 21
sqrt(x) = exp(ln(sqrt(x)))
# 25
sqrt(xy) = exp((ln(x)+ln(y))/2)
# 27
ln(i)=ln(sqrt(-1))
# 28
i = sqrt(-1)
-pi^2 = (ipi)(ipi)
# 31
pi^2 = (ipi)(-ipi)
# 37
exp(xi)=exp(xi)
# 44
exp(-xi)=exp(-(xi))
# 46
pi = (ipi)/i
# 90+x?
2cos(x)=exp(xi)+exp(-xi))
# 107+x?
cos(x) = (2cos(x))/2
# 118+x?
2sin(x)=(exp(x*i)-exp(-xi))/i # using exp(x)-exp(y)
# 145+x?
sin(x) = (2sin(x))/2
# 217+3x?
tan(x) = 2sin(x)/(2cos(x))
My dearest congrats to the author in case s/he shows around this site ^^.
But no...
This is about continuous math, not ones and zeroes. Assuming peer review proves it out, this is outstanding.
The plan is to use this new "structurally flawless mathematical primitive" EML (this is all beyond me, was just having some fun trying to make it cook things together) in TPUs made out of logarithmic number system circuits. EML would have DAGs to help with the exponential bloat problem. Like CERN has these tiny fast "harcode models" as an inspiration. All this would be bounded by the deductive causality of Pedro Domingoses Tensor Logic and all of this would einsum like a mf. I hope it does.
Behold, The Weather Dominator!