Anyway, what I like of this machine is the 15" screen with a keyboard without a numberpad: the center of the body of the user can be aligned with the center of the screen. The screen seems to be particularly bright, which is good. There are claims of good self repairability, we will see when it starts to sell.

I'd wait a few years before buying one machine in this product line. I want to see how Windows on ARM will play out in terms of compatibility. My build targets are all Intel servers (Linux), so I don't want to have surprises. I would have to wait years anyway because I would run Linux and I think that it takes more effort to port Linux to new ARM hardware that to new Intel one (ACPI etc.) WSL is not an option because I still have Windows around it and it's even more unpleasant than having to deal a Mac GUI.

Let's say that if this were an Intel laptop I'd be tempted to buy it, if the hands on reviews will be good.

  - Nvidia
  - Mediatek
  - Microsoft 
    - Windows team
    - Surface team
    - Marketing team
  - ...

That's the reason Framework has an advantage over all these Ad driven companies. They are working together with the Linux / Kernel developers to make their products fit - however it is still lacking the completely cohesive nature of the product, because they still loosely depend on Intel / AMD and other Hardware manufacturers.

An example: Every Apple device with a headphone jack since 2013 (probably long before) including iPods, iPhones and MacBooks has that little proprietary chip with ultrasonic chirp authentication integrated to control playback and volume by the EarPods headphone remote. Now there is a USB-C to 3.5mm Adapter as well as USB-C EarPods that still support this... No Windows Laptop has ever had this. The funny thing is, that Linux now supports these USB-C Apple thingies because they register as input and output devices and that the Apple 3.5mm Adapters now also support other brands headphones with Android.

Too bad the software is awful. Thankfully the Linux Surface community is pretty strong. Proprietary Microsoft drivers don't make it easy, but we're getting there...

https://github.com/linux-surface/surface-pro-x

I'll buy another one if there's some commitment from Microsoft to be more open source friendly, but since this will never happen, they can keep their HW.

Mac Neo is the anti KGB device in a svelte shell. It is a long term strategic play and nothing running Windows will compete against it because Windows is the cancer.

Windows PCs will continue their decline unless Microsoft gives up its privatized KGB aspirations. Active Directory will not carry them forever once enough of the younger generation use Mac for data possession and privacy, meaning all their bits including passwords are not dark pattern snarfed by the OS.

Windows is horrific. Mac Neo is to Windows what Keanu Neo was to the Matrix. It does't even matter how much better PC hardware could be at the same price point since the Windows is basically a conduit to storing all your data and private info on Microsoft's computer instead of yours. Microsoft is even driving that dark pattern crap into the professional space and automatically grabbing passwords etc. via Edge.

They are committing long slow seppuku and do not realize it because Office 365 is letting them bilk enterprise customers, but the IT world knows that dark pattern crap portends a change in vendor eventually.

You can't even stop edge from syncing enterprise admin credentials on the latest versions. It is like getting violated by Microsoft every day where they beat you and take your password book if you are enteprise admin.

Microsoft has gone to the dark side so far they are broom handling their enterprise admin customers with dark pattern credential grabs and no way to know where the data sits.

Bring on the Neos and an alternative to AD. Windows 11 and their new direction of hovering, copying and moving all data is such a betrayal of ethical system administration from when they were young. It will take a decade, but Neo is here now. It has begun.

It's a shame, Microsoft could really do something if they created an ARM device that had the battery life of Apple Silicon, yet was a real computer that wasn't locked down, ensured/promoted ARM compatibility with their ecosystem. Heck, I'd even be OK with Windows 11, I know how to remove all the garbage now and could run WSL (though I'd prefer to just boot Linux on it).

Maybe instead of hardware they should just stick to the knitting and deal with their quality issues around both the OS and the Office suite right now.

It's awful. It feels like it's actively refusing to work properly with Linux.

Fair - it's not for Linux, and clearly that is expected with a Microsoft device.

I've recently had to call their support for missing rubber feet. I figured I could get the replacement mailed(that was how it went when it first happened about two years ago). An AI answered, did not understand what I was saying at all, hung up the call. I called again; it told me to check the website and hung up, not even giving me a chance to say anything.

Okay. Guess I'll never buy anything from you ever. Ordered them off of Aliexpress and moved on.

[1] https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ai-pc/overview.html

Microsoft cannot just throw upgraded hardware after the Surface, and expect it to compete with the Macbook Pro. The Macbook Pro is not primarily popular due to Apple Silicon, but the combination of a focused user experience (although, Liquid Glass was a significant step-down) and high-end hardware.

Or every model after that just slowed down to a crawl after a year. Or the keyboard connection not working reliably.

No thank you very much.

> And with all-day battery life[ii]

If they managed to get anywhere near Apple, they'd have confidently published some kind of actual hour figure without a scare citation.

As an Apple user who can’t make iPad OS work I am always tempted by the surface but..

Every time I contemplate the surface (I like the hardware / concept) it seems the software I might want to use doesn’t support arm..

So vibes battery life. I'm going to assume it's like most Windows laptops and somehow only lasts 3 hours.

What does this mean ? How can you make the world ?

“Legendary”, not a “great”, or “good” one. Certainly not “excellent” or “spotless” but, definitely, legendary.

Who writes these pieces?

It's about Conway's law in software development and software architecture, but he explains it with anecdotes about Windows, like how vendor communication challenges lead to 4 different volume sliders.

I would pass on an expensive heavy-partnership Windows device.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IUj1EZwpJY

It's also a way for Nvidia to protect itself (a bit) from the impending doom at the AI datacenter sector.

I've heard there's still a large backlog of both software problems, and hardware problems with the platform. The software problems could be fixed with time, but they'll still give a shitty first impression. I'd have thought Nvidia would just bury this and try again with a successor run of silicon with a new design.

This thing seems practically destined to just be a repeat of the Snapdragon laptop debacle.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/products/rtx-spark/

I was excited about the ARM laptops that came out a couple of years ago because there were a lot of promises about them moving the industry forward. In the end, I think they were mostly nothing all that special. This, however, really appears to rock the boat. I want Apple to have to compete. I want the best Mac I can get and this laptop will challenge Apple to work harder. This is good for everyone.

Could LLM based AI prefer Linux since it's more customizable?

What aspects are these?

I've had several Surface devices over the years, the original SurfaceBook, and a Surface Pro 4 and Surface Pro 6. The Pro 4 was the most reliable and the Pro 6 was prone to overheat. But execution in the mechanical build was quite good.

That said the battery in my SurfaceBook went all Spicy Pillow on me, the Pro 4's power slot ended up dying, and the Pro 6 just stopped responding one day (it was a work laptop so I just gave it back but still). I'm still waiting to see how folks with Macbooks experience the end of life.

If MediaTek would partner with Framework to make a motherboard I'd totally try it out :-).

Hell no. Who would think that’s a good idea?

One of the absolutely best things about the MacBook Pro is that it’s silent when you’re not really pushing it. It’s incredibly rare for me to hear them on my M4 Pro. Normal work, including compiling, using docker, my IDE, etc. almost never does it unless I do something big over and over and over.

I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a single sound out of my M3 Air. I think it has a fan. I know my M1 didn’t.

Make the coolest computer you want. If noise is a prominent feature I will never go within 10 feet of it.

from all the comments on here it seems like that model was an anomaly and the rest of the product lineup is often pretty lacking.

I have tried many touchpads, but nothing comes close to MacBooks. The tracking feels incredibly precise and consistent. The same goes for the speakers. It is surprising that no other laptop manufacturer has matched the sound quality Apple delivers. That is frustrating, because I genuinely want that same experience on a different system. I do not want to feel locked into MacBooks. I know the Youtube channel Dave2D did a video on this experience as well [1][2].

Another issue is how Windows laptops degrade over time. No matter how many I have tried, they eventually end up in a state where the fans spin up for no clear reason, the battery drains quickly, and I start getting notifications about low disk space even though I have not installed much.

When I check the “Uninstall or remove apps” section, it does not clearly show what is actually taking up space. I often have to use tools like WinDirStat to discover leftover files from applications I already removed. These remnants build up and contribute to the system feeling bloated.

I also start noticing small but frustrating delays, like the lag between pressing the Windows key and the Start menu appearing.

BUT I do have an idea though, Nvidia will hopefully support Linux kernel, so if I have the opportunity to switch to one of these new machines, I might just swap out Windows with a Linux distro instead. Linux Mint perhaps. I am open for suggestions on good distros, specifically for daily use as home computer for both office use and browsing the web, maybe even play indie-games.

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkYB931iUjc

2. https://youtu.be/h26FlWu7aDc?si=FN8FG9EY0eMJ67fU&t=313

Will it be as silent as a MacBook Pro? Will you be able to throw it into a backpack without shutting it down?

At a quick glance it sounds like they're competing on specs and obviously missing everything else.

Why are all the pictures so dark? You can't see it!

But unfortunately, you get Windows

Yeah, sure... And that kind of work is...???

The only device I'm still happy to own from them is the Classic IntelliMouse.

For me, anything else, be hardware or software, I stay very far away from them.

[edit:typo]

crazy.

strix halo was released more than a year ago.

It’s a good first start though. Competition is good. It’ll force my platform of choice — Apple — to keep competing.

…but never buy v1 hardware folks! Especially for limited runs like high end laptops.

Apple quality comes from scale. A narrow product line means they have literally hundreds or thousands times more testing than PC ultra books. (And still — don’t buy a first iteration of a new Apple chassis.)

I switched from a M2 Pro with 24gb ram to the new 8gb Neo and I kid you not, they perform just the same 99.5% of the time.

>The custom NVIDIA superchip challenges both Qualcomm and Apple

But it seems NVIDIA didn't have enough in house know how and they needed MediaTek to develop the chip.

>20-core NVIDIA Grace CPU (Arm architecture, co-developed with MediaTek)

Personally, I got a HP Zbook G1A, which is HP's take on an MBP based on (x86, but unified memory!) Strix Halo.

Battery life could be better, but pretty happy otherwise. Local LLM perf is great and I get to run an OS that doesn't drive me crazy.

What's the actual connectivity? USB4? with or without PCIe tunneling? How many ports?

How much is it going to weigh? Battery life? Battery capacity?

DGX Spark desktops idle close to 20w on Linux: that's a lot for a laptop. I'm expecting Nvidia+Microsoft stepped up their driver game some for this release, but it's wild how few creature comforts or nicities DGX Spark came with. Launched with and still has almost no power monitoring or power management capabilities. If you turn on the highspeed NIC it turns into a 40W hotbox even at idle. Nvidia has such a weird mix of supporting what they want to support well, but doing absolutely nothing else. The way Shield TV is still occasionally getting some updates is impressive for example, but it's stayed on an ancient Android version & went a good fraction of a decade without update. Similarly, keeping folks locked on rickety old Linux4Tegra and now DGX Spark heavily modified Linux OSes has been brutal. It's hard to believe this system is going to be much better than a fantastically expensive bag of barely managed idiosyncratic quirks.

There is something about Microsoft's reverse Midas touch.

We use newer Surface laptops at work, even the artists, developers, and executives (note we are not a tech company). The laptops aren't very fast but they can take a lot of physical abuse and the batteries last all day. We don't need the top of the line, and forcing our developers to use lower powered computers actually improves the quality of the apps because they get to experience how our apps work for most of our customers and take performance into account from the beginning.

aaaaand... scene!

No thank you, and goodbye

My lie detector is going off.

> The containment features sandbox local agents like Hermes and OpenClaw so they cannot interfere with your core operating system.

Wait, isn't that kind of the point of using local agents like OpenClaw? I thought people wanted the agents accessing all kinds of applications, files, etc.?

> Legacy application compatibility is equally crucial. Microsoft optimized the Prism emulation layer specifically for the new microarchitecture. Prism utilizes the raw power of the silicon and recent AVX and AVX2 instruction set extensions to run older x86 applications smoothly under emulation.

Okay, this is pretty nice. I'll give Microsoft credit for this one. It might save my company a lot of heartache one day in the near future.

All in all, this rig is going to be quite expensive. In a lot of ways, it probably is better than a MacBook Pro. However, as a diehard Apple fanboy, it is not enough for me to consider the jump.

A slightly more sober announcement is available at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48352627.

We need and want an open, modular architecture, and currently it's not ARM, it's x86/64. Because I can't go buy CPU retail and replace it at home.

Edit: oh cool, CPU is MediaTek. No-no, I would stay as far as possible from it.

Thank you, but no, thanks.