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Programmers need to start meditating

158 points by enz

by ehnto

7 subcomments

I have certainly noticed my stress skyrocket in this new mode of working. I was used to getting a lot done very quickly, with intense pockets of work followed downtime. Now it feels more like a steady stream of medium stress, and there is no opportunity to stop or drop the thread.
I must admit, if this is the new way of doing software development (eg: not actually programming but working with LLMs) I am not going to stick around for that long. It's not what I fell on love with, it's not what I trained for etc. I may as well do a job I don't enjoy that lets me rest my brain for later.

by ajb

3 subcomments

This isn't the worst article, and it's triggered a decent amount of discussion (despite being very short). However, I really dislike "What you're doing wrong/failing to do" titles. They are intended to trigger anxiety, which is manipulative and (in this case) precisely contradicts the concern the author is purporting to have for the rest of us.
On the subject: some people find meditation very helpful, others find it a net negative, or useless, or impossible to do. So a categorical "you should do this" isn't correct or particularly helpful. Try it, if it works for you, great; but don't put it about that people who aren't doing it are being negligent in some way.

by jahala

5 subcomments

Meditation - «getting used to»
A most elementary form of meditation, is getting used to placing your attention on a sensation and keeping it anchored there - even when other sensations or thoughts arise.
Following the breath- place your awareness, your attention, on the sensation of air passing through your nostrils. Count one inbreath and outbreath cycle as «1», and count until 10 or 21. Decide before you start, how many repetitions of 10 or 21 you will do.
If at any point your attention has drifted to a different sensation - seeing, hearing etc, or thinking, visual imagery etc, then congratulate yourself for noticing, and restart from «1».
I recommend «The attention revolution» by Alan B. Wallace

by senfiaj

5 subcomments

>> I’m clearly much more productive now. I’m doing five things at once very effectively, switching between multiple agent sessions from morning to night.
Joel Spolsky disagrees here: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/02/12/human-task-switche...

by gambler

0 subcomment

Programmers need to stop listening to obnoxious people who are proudly destroying our industry while simulataneously farming our anxiety for attention and validation.
Software enegineering is not the kind of field that should require adoption of some universal coping mechanism. The fact that you're suddenly bing told to adapt to something harming you should raise all kind of qustions and red flags.

by keyle

0 subcomment

I've been doing this for 25 years professionally and let's just say I'm more the 3 coffees, 1 redbull, headphones and bassdrive kind of programmer.
So no, I will not be "meditating". My meditative states tend to be beard stroking and occasional F bomb.

by heisnotanalien

0 subcomment

Programming is NOT meditative even the old way. Yes you can get into a flow state but that's not really meditation. In fact you're really just disassociating in a way and is easy to end stuck in your head too much. In fact, without balance, long periods of coding can leave some people feeling mentally over-identified with abstract thinking and less connected to their body or immediate experience.
It is also worth saying that you don't need to sit still to meditate. You can do yoga or go for a walk. Walking meditation is very underrated IMHO.

by phyzix5761

1 subcomments

For anyone interested in Vipasanna mediation in the tradition of Mahasi Sayadaw: https://sirimangalo.org/text/how-to-meditate/

by delis-thumbs-7e

1 subcomments

I noticed how relaxing and meditative programming can be. It might sound that after day job basically solving other people pronlems I sit down late at noght to just write code for hours on end. But I really enjoy it. Using LLM’s to generate the code ruins it.
I have also done meditation, but I struggle to keep it up for long. I think you should really do it consistently to get majority of effects. Coding, exercising, drawing has always been an easier form of meditation for me.

by docwirth

0 subcomment

I can’t agree that meditation and flow are very equal. In fact they are rather the opposite: while being in the flow (of programming) means been absorbed by your thoughts and you are most likely not be aware of being aware or or being thinking. In most meditation practices the goal is to be aware of your thoughts and inner processes

by crudgen

0 subcomment

I think the more stressful part is the management expectation that things will speed up more, especially when you can generate plausible looking frontends relatively quickly. And if you have out of touch control-freak management without any technical experience, you waste more life time arguing with them.
Of course you also might exhaust yourself to some degree, as your own expectation might be that you can develop multiple things in parallel, while also having to review a lot of code where you might not have context, so in a way you have to hold more high level context in your brain state, what might be somewhat stressful. However, when you have been tech lead once, all of that is somewhat familiar.

by testfrequency

1 subcomments

I was so stressed at work a few years ago. Burnt out. Exhausted. I started meditating. Shared with my manager that I started, and it’s been helping me process all the chaos at work.
He told me that wasn’t normal, and I shouldn’t have to meditate just to function at work :’)

by paulbjensen

1 subcomments

Meditation is great, but there might also be other options available when it comes to dealing with the effects of context switching.
For me, I find the Pomodoro technique really effective, but there's a key caveat, which is that you try to focus on one thing at a time (which flies in the face of using multiple AI agents working on x number of things at the same time).
Another angle to explore is how much of the process of software development that we do manually can we automate, particularly the parts that still require human input (like code reviews). That may also help with reducing the cognitive load.

by hiq

0 subcomment

Regarding the multi-tasking induced by this new way of working (agentic coding), I've moved from quick and short iterations to a longer ideally one-shot prompt, optimizing for less reviewing and less context switching.
I used to send a prompt as early as possible, meaning that'd really just give the rough idea, barely a sentence, and see what the model would come up with, thinking that I'd save time if it got it right for the first time, and maybe I'd just need to correct what it got wrong (it's faster at typing than me). That means a lot of multitasking at a rather high pace, which takes its toll if you do it for too long.
I've recently switched to writing longer prompts (doing part of the planning myself), hoping to get better results and to have less to review: I'm realizing I'd rather write more and read less, past a certain threshold. I don't really want to iterate with an agent; I want to tell it, maybe in somewhat verbose terms, what I want, I want a quick confirmation that it'll indeed work, and I want the final output (e.g. a commit), that's it.
That's probably what some users have been doing since the beginning, but with all the hype around this tech, maybe I got caught by this idea that with just a few words, I can get stuff done. In my experience, it's indeed just a few words, but for useless units of work (iterations with a model) rather than what I really want (commit) which itself will often require non-trivial amount of input. In this case, I'd rather give it all in one go, in a somewhat focused state.

by stdatomic

1 subcomments

No. What they need is to stop being told "ok this is good enough now we need you to implement this other highly-necessary half-assed feature using ai as fast as possible."

by jdw64

0 subcomment

Personally, I feel that as an individual, it's the right time to complete a program, but as a team, it's become harder.
It's true that the proportion of founders has increased both in the US and in my country, Korea.
And unlike the old days, it feels like what's needed now isn't so much deep, concentrated programming knowledge in one area, but rather broad knowledge across many fields. The claim that "productivity has increased" really only applies to freelancers. In fact, there's been a noticeable increase in freelance outsourcing requests that would be hard to handle without AI, lots of short deadline gigs compared to before. And of course, that makes it harder to charge appropriately.
For teams, on the other hand, you still need things like code reviews and team decision making.
As an individual, I've practically become someone who just writes up a gate, lets AI handle the code, checks that the core domain doesn't break, watches the gate's rules, and pulls the lever.
The reason team work slows down is mainly because Agile methodologies and code review processes are still human centric and consensus driven, and human cognitive speed itself becomes the bottleneck.
So I can understand a lot of the arguments that come up in the comments. The important thing is that most people tend to only see their own situation and their own context, which makes it hard for them to understand others.

by bsenftner

0 subcomment

Although I do meditate, I do not think this is the answer to our career's stress. That answer lies in learning how to generate a climate, a culture of open communications. Communications that include asking why, without triggering expectation that the questions are a lead up to blame, or anything other than understanding. Programmers need to learn communications, because BELIEVE IT OR NOT a software engineer's career is almost entirely some communications situation one after another. That is literally what we do: we translate communications between systems that cannot communicate on their own. That is literally the purpose of software. But this is probably news to a lot of you, and many of you will argue that it is not. That's why this career is in such stress, it does not even realize what it does. Sure we write software, which is an act of translating actions and behaviors into another language and environment which we understand and others outside of our field do not. We're communications professionals with a non-human entity.

by pjmlp

0 subcomment

On the contrary, many still need to learn how to say no.

0 subcomment

by homarp

0 subcomment

well, gurus are supposed to meditate, once in a while.
per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Meditation

by titanomachy

0 subcomment

I try not to context switch when doing agentic programming. Instead, I use a single agent thread (in pi) and pay extra for faster inference (GLM 5.2 from fireworks.ai, currently; around 100 tokens per second). I rarely spend more than $25 per working week, which is a fraction of a percent of my own fee (I’m a specialist consultant). I also keep an Anthropic subscription and use that for longer research and design tasks.
I’m sure many people produce more than me, but I retain my sanity as well as a high level of understanding of the code that I produce, which in my domain I feel is still important. I’ve tried ultracode-style subagent workflows and find that they rapidly produce reams of slop that I don’t have the patience or energy to properly review.
I also meditate quite a bit.

by stavros

1 subcomments

I was discussing Buddhism with a few Buddhist friends this past weekend, and I randomly had an enlightenment. It was a very odd experience, I felt like I understood all the weird things I'd heard from them, and I suddenly became very calm and accepting of everything. I also had a sense of sort of "watching" what I was experiencing through my own eyes.
I'm generally hyper rationalist, so this was a very interesting experience, and it happened because a random thing one of my friends said about meditation made something "click" in me.
It lasted about a day, I can't say I have any lasting effects from it now. It'd be interesting to see if I can make it happen again, but when I was in that state, I thought that trying to make it happen would defeat the purpose.

by cyclopeanutopia

1 subcomments

There is also a simpler approach: just stop using AI.
And if you can't, THAT should be a big red warning sign for you.

by visarga

0 subcomment

Meditation can also hype up your anxiety depending on individual circumstances and personality. And it is by no means easy, you have to invest much effort to get results. It's like refactoring your code base (mind).

by bitbasher

0 subcomment

You could meditate.. or you could write some code and care about the craft. I find that much more fulfilling than a few minutes of mindful breathing.
Hell, you can do both!

by sph

2 subcomments

You say programming used to be a meditative activity.
Then why get overwhelmed by LLMs and meditate to calm down, when you can just write the code yourself at a healthier pace? Tools are supposed to be designed around humans, it’s not the human that has to adapt to the machine.
In any case, meditating with an end to destress or to reach higher levels of productivity is missing the point of meditation.

by marcAKAmarc

1 subcomments

Just wanted stop here to say that I find myself lucky to be able to retain employment as a gamedev engineer without using any AI or agent in my daily process. I work remote, so I don't know what the experience of my collegues entails. Am I really slipping into antiquity?

by lobibi

0 subcomment

I’ve started doing mornings without any llm assisted work, and keeping it only for after 11. I find it gives me back the joy of designing my systems in a highly focused state, while keeping the later part of the day for persisting those well thought out ideas into code.

by 6stringmerc

1 subcomments

“I’m doing five things at once very effectively”
…sure you are buddy, sure you are…
Note to self: book appointment with Optometrist ASAP to correct how far my eyes have rolled back into my head.

by eimrine

0 subcomment

I have tried to research what "meditation" really means. I discovered that its meaning is somewhere between "doing nothing" and "processing ceremony". Now it easier for me to analyze those articles with such an optics.

by iamflimflam1

0 subcomment

I don’t think this article is suggesting really going for it in terms of meditation. But, as a warning to people, there is evidence that meditation can be dangerous for some people.

by throwthrowuknow

1 subcomments

Honestly, just go for walks or do something else physical that doesn’t involve a screen. Don’t listen to a podcast. Just take in the scenery or focus on what you’re doing.

by fallat

0 subcomment

You don't already? I thought that's what every programmer has been doing.

by jplusequalt

0 subcomment

When the state of the industry is so bad that people need to start recommended mindfulness to unfuck your brain, then it's time to get the fuck out.

by mxmilkiib

0 subcomment

"'A Course on Early Buddhist Meditation' is a series of ten long-format talks on meditation by Bhante Sujato. The curriculum derives from the early suttas, particularly from the Theravada tradition.
"The video trailer for the original course from which this series has been derived/edited can be found here - https://youtu.be/EEOykTO5754
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcMC0iGGyFk&list=PL70fWqztn7...
"Mahāsatipaṭṭhānasutta - Bh. Sujato", the main breath mindfulness/meditation sutta
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcMC0iGGyFk&list=PL70fWqztn7...
https://suttacentral.net/dn22/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=plain...
A_History_of_Mindfulness_Bhikkhu_Sujato.pdf;
https://santifm.org/santipada/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/A_H...
"This series of 10 Dhamma Talks by Bhante Sujato, given during the rains retreat in Santi Forest Monastery in NSW, Australia in 2007 is the most detailed description of Ajahn Mahachatchai's Metta Meditation technique I have ever come across on the internet."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HREe6phLMpU&list=PLTcGMzIEhl...
Cūḷavedallasutta/The Shorter Elaboration, a socratic discource between a nun and, iirc, their former partner, who later became a monk/mendicant ("begger")
"10.2 “The noble eightfold path is conditioned.” (grasping for good things is good, until you finish crossing the river with that raft)
https://suttacentral.net/mn44/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=plain...
https://suttacentral.net/snp1.8/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=pla...
https://youtu.be/maBmEU4YUi8 - Metta Sutta/The Discourse on Love, recital/chant in English by Sujato

by witx

0 subcomment

> I’m clearly much more productive now. I’m doing five things at once very effectively, switching between multiple agent sessions from morning to night. After working full-time like this for ~8 months, one thing I’m sure of is that this way of working involves much less time spent in a flow state.
What an utter piece of BS. AI goons really like to smell their own crap

by archagon

0 subcomment

Unionizing. The word you’re looking for is unionizing.

by nickvec

0 subcomment

As mentioned in the article, Waking Up is a great option if you want to get into meditation. Highly recommend reading Sam Harris’ book “Waking Up” as well.

0 subcomment

by BoingBoomTschak

0 subcomment

Reeks of SanFran in here...

by pgisapedo

0 subcomment

You need to ____
You should ____
Everyone is full of advice for others lmao

by Uptrenda

0 subcomment

Bros "discuss on hacker news" link takes you to submit the article here. that really rustles my jimmies. its unfortunate that bro couldnt csrf the submit link thanks to submit tokens. I have no doubt he would have tried that too.

by albertfranquesa

0 subcomment

[flagged]

by dan_i

0 subcomment

[dead]